SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Values Lab, a podcast series for founders and portfolio career professionals who are seeking to live a more values led life. And today on the show, I'm very lucky to have Sasha. And Sasha is founder of Sasha Agency, a prestige real estate agency based in Melbourne. And Sasha is going to be talking more about the value of calm. And I've known Sasha for a good few years now, where we actually met, we both decided to take improv classes and we met through improv. And one of the things that Sasha is actually his calmness. He's always calm. And you can imagine that's a good quality on the improv stage because there's a lot of hectic stuff going on. But Sasha was never flustered. And in all the years I actually known Sasha, never seen him flustered at all. So when I saw this value of calm coming through, I was actually not too surprised that it's one of his core values. And I'm really looking forward to diving deeper and learning more about what this value means to him and how he infuses it into his business and life. Welcome to the show, Sasha. How are you going?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Thank you, Virgin. I'm good. And as you were describing that, I just had a pretty uh deep realization as to how calm has been such a like why I've become calm, because I wasn't always as calm as what you've observed in me. And um, I guess it's something that's maybe happened over the last five, ten, ten years, probably closer to a decade now. And and it actually started, not because I was born calm or any of that. Actually, literally, I just had this realization from your intro. Um, I had a business in my early 20s, and there some shit went down, and it was the most stressful first hectic period of my life. Um, it was I was under intense stress and anxiety, and um, and it was just terrible. But and so I I kind of you know reached for wor we actually getting straight into this. I I reached the worst moment of my life where I was at the depths of depression from just how challenging and difficult things were in that uh situation, in that chapter. And uh it took a lot to get out of it. It was extremely emotionally tolling, uh personally, professionally, i in every way. But through many years of going through an extremely tough period, where at the start there was it was hard to see light at the end of the tunnel. And my focus was just on get through day by day. And at some of the worst periods, you know, it literally it couldn't even think a day ahead. It was literally just thinking, just get through the next hour or the next 10 minutes. And and over time, as you keep stacking these on, hours turn into days, days turn into weeks, and weeks turn into months, and then it's like, oh, okay, things are okay now. I guess it was you know, going through that such a um yeah, you know, you know, such a painful, stressful thing, I guess I just subconsciously decided I'd never want to be in and put in that position again or have to go through that. And um, and I guess subconsciously, subconsciously in everything I did, I just thought, well, for this to be sustainable and calm long term, you know, what would need to happen? And then that's I guess, you know, yeah, pretty subconscious, but then it I guess unfolded in in many different ways over the coming years. And but that I think is the seed of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I think it's uh, I mean, I'm so sorry you had to be in that spot where you are, you know, in that dark place. It's been really interesting for me, actually, the last couple of episodes I've recorded, but the guests have talked about the value was born from them going through very, a very difficult time, whether it's like through anxiety or burnout or depression, that these these dark spots cause us to kind of either consciously or subconsciously reflect on what is important for me to live a meaningful and good life. And sometimes those difficult periods help us see the light. I mean, you almost this is it's almost exactly how you describe it. You kind of saw the light, and this is light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. Yeah, the contrast. So it is um become really fascinating in these podcasts to learn where these values have come because for some people it's from where they've grown up or how they've grown up or from their culture, from some people they've just kind of known, and some people they've had to go through this really deep, dark process to get to the point of actually this is what's important to me. So I really uh appreciate you sharing. Sorry you had to go through that, but uh that that's that that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

And it's kind of like it kind of stems from what I don't want, and it's like I don't want that, don't want that, don't want that. And it's like, well, that means I have to do this, this, in this, and this and this. And um, I guess that was the yeah, like it's interesting, that's the genesis of it. And um, and that was just a universal type of value, which I guess is both personal and professional. And then fast forward, you know, if to uh, you know, about four years ago when I was starting my business um and I was designing my brand, I started off by before I even come up came up with their name or the design or branding or any of that, I started off by thinking, what's really bad about the real estate industry, what don't I like? What don't what as an agent, what about, but what about more importantly, what about consumers, buyers, sellers, renters, landlords, what what do people not like about the industry? And for example, things like, you know, people being, you know, promising the world but not delivering, not being honest, you know, rushing through things, not really caring about the arts or the craft. It's all about, oh, you know, just get a deal, you know, don't worry about, you know, what happens along the way as long as you get a deal, as if like that's the only thing that matters. And just look, you know, very self-serving, you know, people I guess would think that bad as agents. And so I just went through this exhaustive list of all the things which um, you know, uh, you know, neg negative perceptions and experiences people genuinely had. And um, and what I've also observed, having been in the industry for close to a decade, by that's and um, and then I thought, okay, so if that's a problem, if that's if that's the frustration, if that's the negative, or what's the opposite? What not solution, but what's the yeah, what's the opposite? And one of those things was calm. Yeah. Yeah, and how that's delivered, well, it's delivered in many different ways. But yeah, it's funny. That's how a lot of these values I've come up with. It's it often starts from what don't don't I want.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

It's uh I mean, even that's interesting because you know, background psychology, and you you'd know this as well. Like, it's top three most stressful experiences in people's lives is moving house, selling a moving house is like in the top three. So I I love that actually you're like, well, I want to, I don't want it to be like that. This this is what the narrative might be for lots of different reasons, but I want to create something an experience that's the total opposite of which I think is uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

And the thing is, what I realized is, you know, a lot of that's what so many people say. It's one of the top three most stressful experiences of someone's life, it's life. But in so many of my transactions, I didn't find that to be the case. Yeah. I was like, what? Like, like like like I can see it happening in other places, but I'm like, it's not really happening with me and my clients. So I'm like, well, why? And I was like, what like what am I doing differently?

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

It starts off with things like simply being honest and transparent. For example, I'll give you an example of a core driver of stress and anxiety in the real estate industry. It all starts in the initial uh pitch meetingslash appraisal, where you tell someone, or well, no, you tell when you give someone an opinion on your opinion on what on what their property is worth. And a lot of agents will overpromise and you know, tell people that their home is worth more than what it really is. And when that happens, and then their property is on the market for a long time and it's not getting much interest, and people are going, you know, what you know, what's going on? You know, you said you were confident, it would sell and all easy or whatever. And uh and that creates stress because uh owner is stressed for the lack of traction and results. The agent is stressed because they're getting pressure from the owner as to lack of performance. And then you gotta have difficult conversations of saying, Oh, you know, like you know, agents say, Oh, I guess the market's just the market's changed and they blame it on the market. But really, the market really hasn't changed from last month or two or three months ago. Yeah, it doesn't lose that quickly. There's a reason why the valuation, why property valuers are a professional industry, because it really is a science.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

You you you actually can get quite accurate on a valuation with a high degree of confidence, as it's literally a formula. And so simply by being transparent and clear and accurate in the that initial phase of helping educate someone onto the true market value of their home, that sets the foundation for a calm process because you're working together for generally a couple of months from start to finish. If you know, if an agent overpromises in our first meeting, everything else will just be difficult and stressful and you know, it's it's you know, you'll struggle. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I've um it's it's so interesting hearing you talk there, because I one of the things I encourage people to do is take your values and figure out how can you infuse them into your service delivery. So look at them as a actually, your personal values are a point of difference if you're you know, and if you the way if the way in which you deliver your services, if you can infuse those personal values, you can create real real difference and noteworthiness in your in your market. So one of my strongest values is fun, and I try and infuse that into my work, and that makes my services and the way they're delivered distinctive. That doesn't mean that it's for everyone, not everyone wants fun, and that's fine. They might want other things, but it helps create a sense of what what I stand for, what my brand stands for, and it helps kind of get some kind of traction in you know, what's a very competitive marketplace. And I'm you know better than anyone that you're in a you're in a very competitive marketplace. So actually, yeah, yeah. Infusing your values in and into your way you deliver is I imagine crucial to creating a bit of cut-through.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Absolutely. You know, if you you know, if you take what you're naturally strong in and comfortable in with your personal values, like fun for you, and you so and if the market also, if there's a need in your market for that, that's you know, the ideal formula. And then other times in, you know, in um uh like and I've had other times where I've brought my values and tried to put it out into the market, but then you know, um, you know, not necessarily in real estate, but in other things, and then the response was you know, lack of interest or redness. Because sometimes like what we have, the market isn't interested in no in other things. But if they can align and you and then what you're naturally good at aligns with what the market wants, or at least a a segment of the market, um, happy days.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

It's so funny you say that because I I have found I've actually gone on both ends of the spectrum where I over-indexed on funds. So I've I built products and services way over-indexed on fund too much to the extent that there wasn't the market need for it. And I've also gone the other way, which is responding a lot to the market need and trying to suppress the the value side, and I've just been dissatisfied. So I think it's I I I love that point. It's like, yes, you need to make there's a match that needs to be there, which is like your personal strengths, what there's appetite and demand for, and you need to kind of get it in the right quantities. Um, I think it's key.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. Exactly. I'll give you an example, like in real estate that I found, you know, at the early phases of my brand, I thought cool was, you know, something to pursue. And whilst there is some importance to that, you know, to be cool, you know, you you don't need to like for for what I want to do and for the sort of clients I want to have and how I want things to run, it's not necessarily the thing to over-index on. It's like it's nice to have, and you should definitely have it. You don't be cringe or dorky or that stuff. Yeah. It's not like you don't need to be max cool.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

No. And I think it's a good way of looking at our values, like I think that's a really nice way of putting it, is like, what's the degree of that value that you need to infuse into the business so that it fits the market and where the market's at and what they what they want? I think it's a really interesting way of looking at it. What I'd love to know is are there other ways in which you infuse this value of calm into your services? So you talked about the kind of initial appraisal meeting. Where else does calm kind of calm come in? What are some of the critical points you see yourself infusing calm into the stressful process of buying and selling a home?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah. I mean, it it's literally everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Certainly, the um when you get the price conversation right, um, that would probably be a major, major part. But other parts of calm is for example, example in design of how things look, where in your marketing to your, you know, it's what's online, to your social media, to what's out there in the physical world, like on the look of your signboards to the you know, it's what's inside a house, to, to anything to the design of your offices, even the architecture of the office. Um and look, right now we're still early stage where we don't have our own custom office yet. But when that does happen and we do have a flagship office building, it will be designed to look and feel calm.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I take a lot of inspiration, for example, from ASOP, this Hincare brand. And it's funny, when I was first uh you know, designing my brand and the business, I bought the ASOP founding book. Um actually got it right here, let me bring that. It's right at hand. Yeah, it's it's like in like it's a coffee table book. It's great. And you know, you read this book, there's you know, beautiful imagery, there's plenty of white space, the way the paper feels, um, it just it slows your world down to how the copyright to the writing itself, how it's written. There's no exaggeration, it's just based in authenticity, calm, clarity, and all these things create a set a sense of calm, a sense of trust. And and as I was reading that this book, it made me feel like, you know, why can't real estate be like this? Um, in in some ways, I was already delivering things internally. It felt calm, but now that I've had the opportunity to create a brand new, a new brand from scratch, now I could also think about the aesthetic as well and how to make it visually calm. And that and it's an ongoing process where you know you start with yeah, version one, and we're just, you know, still to this day, every day with in every design element, I'm always thinking, how can this be clearer, calmer, nicer, better, um, you know, unique. I really look at this more as an art, you know, from from an artist and a designer's perspective. Um, I resonate a lot with architects, creatives, more so than typical agents. Yeah. And people often tell, and yeah, it's no surprise that people often tell me, you're not like a typical agent. Because yeah, I'm just very upfront. I'm slow, not slow, but one of the things in the early days I thought was a weakness is I'm not a fast talker. I don't have a gift of the gab. I, you know, what you imagine in a, you know, where you think it would a successful agent would look like, at least many of those you see on TV and examples as to what peak success is, I was like, oh that's not me. Yeah. And but then when I started, you know, noticing other professions like creatives and architects, designers, they're not they're not necessarily people with the gift of the gab, they're more considered, slower, more thoughtful. And I resonated with that. And and I guess I just had a mindset shift that number one, this is okay. You don't need to be a fast talker or a smooth talker in that way. Um, and secondly, a lot of people actually prefer that.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um creates a lot more trust, comfort, rapport. And I'm like, so so and then so I've lent in lent into that. And speaking of the gift of the gab, two things have really helped with that. Because now obviously I'm I'm blabbing on quite a bit now. It's like it's like it's like, you know, it doesn't look like I lack the gift of the gab now. But it's like um, but the reason why is because two things. Number one, what we did together at improv, learning that is such a great communication skill to assist in knowing what to say and being comfortable in with any sort of form of communication. And the second thing is through being thoughtful about what my values are, what I want to be, what I want a business to be, and also just as importantly, what I don't want it to be, by knowing that and having that awareness, it makes it easy, like it makes it natural to have conversations that are coherent and you know, they have substance to them because I know my position, I know what I stand for, I know what I am and what I'm not. I know what my and it all starts with clarity on values. So that's how it all goes.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I love it. Well, I love that it's it's so many examples you've pulled in, which is like your service delivery, the values are infused in, the way you brand and market the bit business, the values are infused in, the way you can be against the grain, like against the stereotype. I think there's so much it's one of the reasons I love values work is I I really believe there's an opportunity for like a great diversity of service offering and the way we offer things, but one of the best ways to do that is just get in tune with our values, and there's a lot of distinctiveness there. And you've described that so nicely in terms of how you're not your stereotypical real estate person that people will imagine, you're completely different, and you've actually had to go through that journey of finding your niche in that in the in the industry, which I think is really powerful. I also love as well how I often say, you know, what are the things you gravitate that you love, and that often tells you about your values and the fact that you've got ASOP or something that you just love what they've created, and it I guess it it it's it's really sounds like a good source of inspiration, but also good insight into what you actually value, which is calm, shine.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, calm, but also that's one value, you know. Then of course, another important value is you know, performance, design, aesthetics. So some brands which help guide me that I can take inspiration from would be like ASOP, Porsche, yeah, Tom Ford, Saint Lorraine. So I take a lot of inspiration from fashion, automotive, yeah. Even the idea of Formula One, where it's about constant innovation to get to the pinnacle of your processes, your parts, your everything to deliver the ultimate um performance at the end of the day. And so we're con I'm constantly trying to strip away what's unnecessary, make things faster, make things more seamless, uh, do things, you know, fig you know, to figure out what's better automated versus what's better left to a human touch. What and just it's a relentless pursuit of you know a optimal experience in real estate for both, for all, for all stakeholders, the sellers, the buyers, agents, the support team, everyone. And and by no means have have I got that fully worked out. Um it's a long way to go, and we're gonna need to build, you know, more systems and technology and um things t to get there. Um But you know, we're we're getting there slowly but surely, one step at a time, one property at a time.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Well, all I think all of these things are I mean, business is just it is a big work in progress, isn't it? We're constantly kind of tweaking things to figure out the as I said, the best thing for the customers, best things for the business, especially strongly founder-led business, what works for us as well. I think they're all sort of such important things. What I'd love to explore is we've we've talked a bit about how you've integrated the value of calm into your into your business. I'd love to kind of explore how have you integrated it into your personal life? Because I think it's very hard to show up as a calm entity if you're not living the value at a at a personal level. So I'd love to know what are some of the things you do at a personal level to ground yourself in this value of calm.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Sure. Um, well, I've known this for a long time, but um it's just something I really want to get back into, and that is yoga. I, you know, you do some yoga and you instantly feel more calm. It releases emotions that are stuck in your muscles. Um, I don't know how this works, but it it does, and you just it slows you down, it makes you think more clearly, and that your, I guess, physical system is also feeling better. All these things together lead to calm. You know, I've done, I don't know, maybe close to a hundred um or so yoga sessions that's you know, put me in good stead, but I haven't done it for a long time. But that's something I'd love to um yeah, reincorporate back into back into my life and do at least once a week or twice a week ideally. But other ways to create calm, you know, is you know, other forms of physical exercise, whether that's you know, like for you, running or gym or or any sort of sport. I think you know, getting physically pushing yourself to physical exhaustion, exhaustion, yeah, just releases a lot of negative things in us and yeah, just leaves us feeling calm or maybe just tired, but I don't know. Maybe both.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, so it's so tired you have no more energy left to be. I just ignore it. There's actually some interesting, I'm gonna butcher the research, but there is some interesting research around how many calories we burn in sedentary, like if you're sedentary and if you're active. And actually the level of calories is not too dissimilar. So it's not actually burn what ends up happening is you burn a lot of calories. When you're sedentary, you burn a lot of calories through anxious thought. So all these calories need to go somewhere. So whatever amount of calories you're burning, if you get rid of an exercise, you actually then don't have that surplus to then burn through anxious thinking. So there's actually I'm sure I've butchered the research, but there is a strong link there between why exercise makes us feel calm, it's because it doesn't leave as much energy for anxious negative thinking patterns. So makes sense. Um I'll send you something. Actually, there's a cool video on that, as I'll say to you. Might include it in the show notes as well for people that might be interested in that. Cool. And what are some of the other um like exercise I think is a really good one? Are there any other kind of like working practices you have to kind of stay calm? Because it's not I imagine it's it's not a you know, the job itself is fit could be quite stressful for many people. There's lots of different queries coming in, there's things happening, you've got to go to open homes, you've got to get hang home-staged. Like it's a multifaceted job. There's a lot, lot going on. Uh is anything you do from a kind of working practice perspective to stay calm, like yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

So by no means am I calm 24-7. Yeah. That that that certainly is the direction that you know I'd like to get to. But um, you know, in no particular order, some of the things from working practice involves one thing I did recently, which has been amazing, is I got a Mac Studio computer, which is like you know, the ultimate Mac computer. I also got the Apple Studio Monitor or whatever whatever it's called, but it's amazing and you can you know lift the screen up and it's just it just it's so beautiful, it works so fast. Because my previous computer, it was an iMac, it was getting pretty old, and so it was laggy, it was it was creating frustration. And you know, when things, you know, when your computer, which I use, you know, for for like I'm in front of the computer the majority of the day. It's not, you know, you'll do your meetings, of course, but most of the time I'm doing computer work. And um, yeah, having an operating system that is super fast and you know is set up for to help me have better posture where you know I can angle it, you know, where I need to, and having a great chair, a Herman Miller, this is so good. It's yeah, like the having the right physical components, that's step one. Then the next thing is okay, well, what's what do your systems look like? So for when it comes to running a campaign, there's often like a hundred plus steps involved in what to do. And if you don't have that well systemized and documented, once you start getting busier with more and more listings, it's very easy for things to fall through the cracks and to maybe forget something or to, you know, not do something to the particular standards which need to be, you know, done as. So having really great systems and processes that are scalable. And um yeah, getting um that that has been good. And and it's once again, it's a work in progress, and there are all sorts of different systems in the business. But as we improve things one at a time, it's it's yeah, it's making it all stronger together. Another thing I've done in the last couple of months, which has been really great, is creating bookmark folders on my Chrome desktop, I mean Chrome browser. So I've got about um 15 or so folders, and within each folder, there's anywhere from five to fifteen um of these shortcuts that I regularly use. Organizing that has been um really helpful as opposed to trying to go, you know, remember oh, what's our website or you know, looking for all so organize organization is is great. So in your digital life, so from your browser to your phone. Um so deleting Yeah, here's another like one with your phone, for example, so on easy. So deleting a lot most a lot of apps which you don't use, too, turning off notifications on you know most apps, you know, that really you don't you don't need to be notified on. And another one is you know how when you get a notification, you get a like a a number, like how many unread messages or emails you have. When once you got you know, psychologically, when you see you got, you know, let's say it says five, you got five unread emails, you feel like you need to go in there and clear those five things. And then you have another app with another count counter of things you got to check and read and process. And once that starts that starts stacking up across multiple apps, you're like, shh, I've got all this stuff to do and work creates chaos. Yes, it does. Exactly. So I I turn off all the counters on my apps. I get notified when I need to for things, but I don't have the counters on anymore. That way I'm I don't feel like pulled into having to process for more.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

You've kind of identified what are the things that cause like stress and how can you kind of eliminate those? So whether it's like like the actual technology systems and you need to eliminate those, or it's like business processes, like how can you eliminate that? And coming down to your phone, how do I eliminate the stresses so I can stay calm? And it's funny you're hearing you talk as well, because I think um, as you know, I DJ and one of the things I did late last year is I just better organized all my tracks, like like you did with your browsers. And I feel so much calmer on stage now because like I know I can just find any song for the moment very easily. And because it can be quite stressful. Sometimes you've got like a minute to bring the mix in, you've got to find the song, bring it in. But actually, now it's like it doesn't matter. I know where everything is, I can just I'll find it because there's that sense of underlying organization of taking the time to organise stuff. So I'm not stressed in the in the moment anymore.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

It's huge, being organized everywhere in you, you know, your house as well, in your in your home. Yeah. From your clothing, go marie condo and just yeah, declutter, declutter, remove anything that doesn't spark joy, all that stuff. I guess I'd be called a bit of a minimalist. Um, I still think the scenes I could remove by my standards, most people call me a bit of a minimalist. It just creates space to not have to think about those things, so that I and and that creates calm.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Look at one of the best things in your life.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

That decluttering approach. And even going back to the phone thing as well. I just remembered I one of the things I've started doing only two weeks ago, I just installed this app called ScreenZen. And then on certain apps, which you know sometimes habitually you might open something like Instagram. I've now got a 20-second timer before it actually opens and it says, Are you sure this is important? Or you could or you could put in a breathing exercise. So it's quite good some of these pattern interrupts to kind of screen zen.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah, I'll check that out.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

I'll send it to you. I'll include that in the show notes as well because it's been really nice to actually decrease screen time and increase a sense of peace. Now, we've talked a lot about your uh agency, and I guess this is a chance for you to hand the mic over to you. Tell us more about your your agency, what are you focusing on? Anything exciting you want to kind of share that's uh front of mind for you right now that you'd love to tell the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Sure. Well, I feel like I've spoken quite a lot about it just through how we do things. And I think through that conversation, you can you already get a bit of a preview into what it'd be like to work with us as a client. So whether you're looking to sell your home, or you're looking to buy something, or you're looking to, you know, rent, whatever, whatever, but any proper you need, you can already feel while working with me, with Sash, my team, it'll be calm, it'll be clear, it'll be, you know, performance is important. It's not about being cool, it's about at the end of the day, it's about performance and getting a good outcome. And yeah, it's gonna be in a in a calm way. But what what we do is we're a real estate, I'm a real estate agent. My real estate agency is called Sash Agency, and um our focus is on prestige, high-end properties, currently based in Melbourne. And you know, of course, as um well, of course, but I have ambitions to yeah, grow around Australia and then to all the major capital cities across the world. And yeah, we've been around for about three and a half years now. I remember when I first started, my goal was survive year one. Well, that's that's and I was like, oh, holy shit, a year's past, and it's like, okay, let's just survive year two. That happened, it's year three, and now we're up moving on to year four. So it's gone super fast. Um, there's still so much work to go, but so far the brand is yeah, it seems to be resonating quite well with people. People say, like, I get a lot of feedback in terms of you know, it feels good, it feels it generally does feel different. And uh all of these, all of these things stem back to, you know, your question on well, how and it's like, well, because of the values, yeah, you know, calm, intensive, seamless, mind-led, transparent, all these values that the business has, that's what what creates ultimately leads to the customer experience that um our clients are experiencing. And and not just that, but also the you know, strong positive outcomes that are also occurring. But it all stems from values.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

I literally think values is it's been an enabler of so much opportunity and creativity and um yeah, and so it's just it's just a source of so much power. Um, I think more than anything. So I think, you know, this series you're doing and um you know your focus on values is such a I think it's the most important thing you could do in business or or personal life because if you don't, if you get this wrong, or if your values are off or you or you're but you're not clear on them, everything else will be punctured in a negative way by us. But if you get it right, everything just goes faster, it aligns better, you it resonates with the right people to bring people into whatever vision you have, whether it's uh for a personal project or a professional project. It's just it's everything. So it's been yes, it's been really enjoyable to discuss this with you. And I look forward to listening to some of your other podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Thank you so much, Sasha. I love how much of a values advocate you are. It's also awesome to hear a lot of people in my space, the psychology space. We we talk about this a lot, but it's so good to hear someone that's come from a different space that works in a different industry kind of see the the power of of this as well and articulate it so well. And thanks so much for coming on the show and just sharing your perspective. And I've I've really enjoyed hearing about how you look at this value of calm and how you infuse it into everything you do. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Amazing. Thanks for having me, Varen. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I'm sure I'm going to see you very soon.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

We we will.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Looking forward to it.