SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Values Lab, a podcast series for founders and portfolio career professionals seeking inspiration and ideas to live a more values-led life. And today on the show, I have Megan Trotter. And Megan is founder of PollinateXD. And Meg helps leaders transform their organizations into places where people can do the best work of their lives. I love that tagline. And Megan is on the show today to talk about her value of best self. Now, I'm uh quite interested in this particular value. I haven't known Megan for a very long time, but I've found Megan to be super thoughtful. And I really dive uh look forward to diving deeper into this particular uh value. So hi Megan, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Hi, thank you so much for having me, and what a kind introduction.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I've loved the conversations we've had. I think we've spoken maybe a handful of times and a bit over email, and I've I found you to be very, very thoughtful and incisive. So I think this value, when you when I saw it come through, it kind of made sense to me. So I'm looking forward to getting into it. So I guess a great place to start would be you're you've got best self. What does the value of best self mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Essentially, it means bringing my personal best. You know, it it's really asking the question of am I contributing positively to the relationships in my life, in to the ongoings of my life? Am I being the active driver? Or am I actively sitting in the driver's seat of my life, right? And probably, I guess, your introduction speaks to that a little bit around, you know, I really try to be an active listener. I really try to remain present with people. Of course, sometimes things in life happen and your mind gets taken away, but ultimately for me, it's about constantly coming back to this idea that I will create the best life for myself and the gr the best experience for others if I'm bringing the best version of myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Amazing. So there's a lot of things that kind of jump out to me there. This this uh I'm hearing this uh theme of like kind of being present, being focused, putting your best effort into any any given given thing. Um I'm curious to know whe when when did you discover this was one of your your values? Uh and how did you discover that it was one of your values?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Really great question. Early in my career, I was suffering from panic attacks, actually. I I'd been in an abusive relationship, and I got to a point where I was letting the anxiety of all of that drive how I showed up all the time. And I realized that I was probably playing victim a little bit in that and not letting myself take ownership over the situation. And later down the line, I met my now husband, who is a very lovely and wonderful person, and I actually stumbled across some, I guess they were kind of like values cards, potentially. And I said to him, Oh, why don't we pick out which five of these things are most important to us in our relationship? And he actually picked one out, which was called best self. And when he talked about it and described very much what I've described to you, I realized actually that is what I really value as well. And what I valued about our relationship was that he had helped me to learn that the way forward in leading a great life for myself was in looking after myself and always prioritizing looking after, like being my best self. Um and yeah, I think it then just became something that over time became more prominent because whenever I was struggling, or whenever life seemed to go off course, or I wasn't living in a way that felt really good, it often came back to the fact that I wasn't remaining present and being the conscious driver of my life. I was getting carried away with my emotions or with, you know, whatever else. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

That's so fascinating. Uh it's it uh especially the discovery of the value. For some people, it's something that they've had since childhood, and sometimes it's something people have discovered later in life. And it's uh I think yours is so interesting. It's something it sounds like you've uh discovered later in life and and you've got words to describe it. And what I also find really interesting is when people have got a value like best self, it almost becomes almost like a bit of a mantra when you do get stuck. Well, it's something you can use to get um unstuck.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

It's interesting because w whilst maybe I discovered the words for it later in life, I think probably as I was growing up, I mean, I was an anxious kid. I was always caught up in my thoughts. I remember once I heard about mindfulness and someone tried to explain that mindfulness is about recognizing that you are not your thoughts. And I remember just having this moment of like, what? How how can that be possible? Um, but I think growing up I was always encouraged to, you know, do my best and and work hard and whatever else, but my emotions often would get in the way of that, and it wasn't until later in life that I learned that it didn't need to be that way, and I could be in control of the way that I show up and how that then impacts my ability to do my best work. And I think it was only through hitting a really low point and realizing I don't want to live my life like this, and then being shared some tools and techniques that could help me be more in control of the way I show up, that I then realized, okay, this is something that I need to always prioritize. And um yeah, I I think it was probably always important to me. I just didn't know how to live that value early on.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I think that's a great distinction as well. I'll I'll first say sometimes um we well often people I talk to a lot of people and they don't have uh they wouldn't even be able to tell me what their values are. They haven't sat down. And they obviously they exist. Whether they're able to articulate them or not, they they exist. And the more cognizant we get of what the value is and the more we can prioritize that value in our life, hopefully we get more meaning and satisfaction. Um and you mentioned that word prior you kind of now you prioritize it more. I mean, what are some of the things you do to prioritize that value more? Is that how how do you keep it front of mind and how do you prioritize it?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Well, to answer that question, I think I need to say that, you know, for me being my best self means being able to take a pause between when something triggers me or even in a positive way, right? Like even if I'm in a state of heightened emotion, whether that be positive or negative, that I can take a moment to sit in that and choose how I respond rather than react. Um, and that's especially true in times of stress. And when you're under stress, it can be very difficult to behave in ways that are maybe aligned to your val to your values if you haven't been practicing them outside of that moment. And so for me, practicing that means having uh, yeah, like you said, little rituals. So something that I do on a daily basis in the morning is I always start the day by asking myself, what is my intention for today? What do I hope to get out of the day? And then reflect on what comes up for me when I set that intention. Am I stressed about something? Am I worried about something? Or am I distracted by my to-do list or whatever, whatever it is? I let that come up and try to get in tune with, I suppose, like the intention is like your head, where's your head going? And your and the attention is more like, where's my heart right now? And then given where my head is and where my heart is, I think um, you know, in psychological terms, it's like system one and system two thinking, right? Like becoming more aware of both of those, and then deciding, given both of those, how do I choose to show up today? What can I do to bring my best self? Um, and so that's like a daily practice that I start every morning, and I've even now developed a little like chat GPT type coach that helps me work through that every morning so that then I can, you know, break down my goals for the day and whatever else and keep track of that. Um, but I think the other thing outside of that is, you know, being my best self also requires having a balance between different aspects of my life. So I'm a very conscientious person. I get a lot of joy and love out of my work, but I can also over-index on that. And so I need to make sure I schedule time for play and exercise and rest. Uh, and to to the extent that I actually have those scheduled in my calendar now, because if I don't have them as part of my to-do list, then it's too easy for them to fall by the wayside.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

There's a couple of things I'd love to pick up on. So the first one is this daily daily ritual. So tell me a little bit more about because I I like the, you know, a lot of people have daily rituals. I'm always curious as to like is do you is is it something that you're very regimented with? Do you do it at a certain time? Is it like the f or is it something that's like first thing in the morning? How long do you spend on this on this process? Um Yeah, tell me a little bit about some of the specifics around logistically, how do you fit it in and what how long do you spend on this?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Um It's definitely a morning activity. So when I sit down to start my day, I open up, I've I use Gemini now, so I've created like a gym, uh, and I get it to ask me those questions. So what's your intention for today? And I share it, and then what comes up for you when I reflect and share that. And then together, strange saying that about an AI, but together we um analyze, you know, am I being kind to myself in in that assessment? Or, you know, how can I move forward with kindness and awareness and and support for myself? Um, and then I have in there shared what my goals are and and my sprint plan and whatever else else it is that I'm working on so that then I can prioritize my day accordingly. Um, so typically I would try to set aside about 15 minutes to half an hour each morning just to do that activity. In saying that, when I have a lot of work on, it's it's the first thing to go, right? Because I just want to get stuck into work. And what I then find is suddenly I've got a week, two weeks without doing it. And next time I go back in, I'm like, oh my gosh, my last entry wasn't for however long. So the biggest thing for me is coming back at the end of the day and sharing how my day went and and closing the loop essentially. Because if I set the intention, but I don't then reflect on how setting that intention impacted how I showed up that day, or alternatively, if I didn't set it, what the impact of that was, then there's nothing to reinforce that habit, I suppose. So it yeah. And at a minimum, I try and do it at least once a week.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

And that's amazing. And I think it's such an interesting example of using AEI in a way that enhances our kind of humanness. So I think it by the sound of it, you're using it as a bit of a sparring partner to help unlock all the all of your human traits and for you to be your best best self, not for it to replace some of those things. I think it's such an interesting thing. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Absolutely. I think for me, as much as possible, my principle around AI has been to use it as a thought partner to help me reflect and refine my thinking and and to help me see my blind spots rather than to do the thinking for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, so interesting. Um curious on your take, because you're obviously using it fairly often for this particular role, and how do you find it compares to having a I mean, it's it's hard to have a human on demand like this, but when you have had the opportunity to spar your thinking with a human, in what ways do you find AI is better for this kind of thing? And in what ways do you find it falls short from your experience?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

It's an interesting question because the reason that I started using AI for this particular practice was because originally I did this practice in a journal. So I I guess I my initial comparison is journal versus AI, right? And I actually did an analysis beginning of last year of all of my journal entries, and I tracked it against my menstrual cycle as well to identify what were the things that kept coming up throughout the year that I was struggling with, and how was my menstrual cycle impacting my mental state throughout the year? So the the way in was kind of through AI anyway. I probably wouldn't have asked a human to do that activity. I would have instead done it myself. And so, in that sense, it was immensely helpful because it saved me the time of doing that myself. In terms of then that, I suppose, self-coaching with some AI assistance versus a person, I think I don't know. I I've had coaches over my career and they've been immensely helpful. And there's something about a person listening to your experience and reflecting that experience back to you that is so much more powerful than an AI, I think maybe one of the reasons I find it difficult to, and maybe I'm just rationalizing this, but maybe one of the reasons I find it difficult to keep doing that activity every day is because it's not human and I have to read the response. I'm not hearing the response or seeing it on a person. But in saying that if I compare it to what I was originally doing, which was just a journal, it it was definitely, it's definitely useful because it makes me feel a little bit more like I've got an accountability partner.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah. There's something coming back in the world.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Um, but it but I definitely would say that it shouldn't replace like a therapist or a psychologist or whatever it is for something more serious, right? Like I um I've definitely had moments where I've needed at times in my life to reach out for that human support. And I personally don't think right now AI is able to entirely replace that kind of work, but it can help you be a bit more proactive in maintaining those types of practices that maintain self-awareness and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, so interesting. Uh it's it's so interesting that actually the the journey you've gone on from the written journal to the AI partner to getting AI to do analysis for you. And I guess there is this part as well where you can sometimes ask AI, or feels at least more comfortable to ask AI certain things or have certain conversations with AI that you maybe some people would feel uncomfortable having with a person. So I think there's some interesting opportunities there as well. But I yeah, I totally agree with you. I think the power of of a person and that person's own experiences shaping advice back to you is so powerful because I think I think uh yeah, I just don't think you can personally just don't think you can replace that particular facet of the coaching experience.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

No, and and the earlier models of AI, because I was taking it a step further and asking it to help me prioritize my work for the day, and then I would check in with it, how did I go against each of my kind of three big goals for the day, and then at the end of the day, come back and reflect on how the day went and ask it to analyze my entries, I suppose, and look at some organizational psychology or psychology type principles that would help me make sense of my experience. And because it had the ability to have this kind of memory of multiple entries, it could start to see where patterns were emerging. Now, if I asked a psychologist to do that for me every single day of the week, it might be a bit overkill and probably quite expensive. Um so in that sense, having the AI there was really great. On the other hand, AI, I think, panders to people a little. Like unless you really train it to be a critical thinker, sometimes I would find that if I got into the habit of deprioritizing my work and almost taking the best self value a little bit too far, right? Like prioritizing my well-being so much so that I wasn't getting work done or whatever it else it was. Like sometimes I would notice I haven't actually achieved some of my goals, and I think it's because I'm letting myself slide a little bit too much, and I'm not really taking enough accountability over getting things done that I need to get done, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

So that resonates a lot with me. I I've I went through a period, I think last year, you know, and I was like, just be kind, like I wasn't hitting stuff. I was like, be kind to yourself, but I took it too far myself. It's like I was very kind to myself, but at the expense of like then just not progressing things that I wanted to wanted to progress. So it was a bit of a delicate, um, delicate balance that definitely resonates. And I think uh yeah, the fact that it panders a bit, it's it like that can be useful sometimes as well. Sometimes we do need a little bit of a boost just to keep going on to the next step, but often it there's a consequence to that. There's often a yeah, consequence and a trade-off to it. So I I I love how much thought has gone into this uh this particular ritual. Um what I'm curious uh so when I saw the value, and then obviously I saw the the description you've got for the work you do, and I just can't help but notice. I I love when there's a bit of a synergy between a personal value and a and a and purpose, and to help people do the best work of their lives, which is the thing that stands out to me. I mean it's so close to best self and what you've kind of described. Now I might be reading too much into it, I might not be is there a deliberate connection there? Is it an accidental connection? Tell me more about how these two things play together.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Absolutely. I mean, so I help Series A to Series C leadership teams define what high performance looks like for their organization and take accountability for ensuring their teams are able to thrive. And the reason I'm so passionate about that is because, especially in startups, we can be so focused on outcomes and the things we're trying to achieve. And we can burn people out in the process, which comes with all sorts of costs around, you know, retention and hiring and development and whatever else. And I guess I got to a point where I realized for myself, even in a startup, that I wasn't always able to bring my best self because of that focus on outcomes or results, sometimes at the cost of people. And so I'm I'm very passionate about building workplaces that focus on achieving results through enabling people to be their best self. And not, you know, not going too far and then pandering to people, right? But maintaining a balance between uh the outcome that we're trying to achieve and the way in which we get there. And I think that a good philosoph performance philosophy, if an organization has one, looks at both outcome and kind of performance metrics, like the day-to-day what does my best self look like? What does what should people in this organization be doing on a day-to-day basis that allows them to bring their best self in the way that they work together, in the space that they create for each other? Um, and so I my work is very much about helping leadership teams to recognize the difference between those two things and start to take more accountability of creating the conditions that allow people to bring their best self as well as be as well as creating clarity over the outcomes and building the capability to get there.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

And I I love it. I mean, there's so much that's intertwined between what you were talking about earlier on and the work you're doing. What um I guess one of the things I'm interested to explore is, you know, you started the business, you can do the, you know, the opportunities are endless. How much did you consider your personal values and then also then determining what you're doing? Was it yeah, tell me about the process from starting the business and deciding what you're going to do, and how much did the your personal value of best self feed into that?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I'm sure it was a conscious decision.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

In saying that on the other hand, I try very consciously to lead with that value, right? And to live my my life consciously. So probably it was more so that that value helped me to find what I wanted out of my life that would give me the experience of having the greatest impact on people. And I mean, my background's user experience design. I then moved into people experience where I was working with HR teams, teaching them about UX and product management methodologies and principles, and how to apply that to the experience of work. And what I noticed was how how valuable that was in helping HR teams to have greater impact. However, if the organization didn't really have clear purpose or clear a clear definition of what performance looked like for their organization, then those initiatives were a bit of a shot in the dark, not always aligned to where the organization was going. And ultimately the HR teams were burning out because it was kind of like the equivalent of like the build trap for product teams. They were always trying to release new features or HR initiatives or whatever else to solve symptoms of problems rather than the real problems. But it's hard to get to what the real problem is if you can't relate it back to the business outcomes that you're trying to achieve. And I guess for me, in terms of bringing my best self to work, I want to be working with leaders who want to align their culture more closely to strategy because then I'm able to live my value of well that that aligns to the way I my my philosophy on life, but it also aligns to the impact I want to have on people. Um and I also just think it's good for business. So I I think it was it was in there. It just wasn't me thinking what about what would enable me to be be my best self, but rather how that would show up in an organizational setting and how I might help clients to live that value.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I it it's so I I think even that that process, it's it's just getting that fit right is so hard between building something that we that has got our values, you know, our fingerprints throughout it, but also then also meet something that the market genu genuinely wants as well. And we're kind of I think that's a lot of the early days is tinkering around. And I've I've gone in both directions. I've gone too far into my own values and just focusing on that, and I've gone too far focusing on what customers want. And it both are not happy situations, but actually finding the sweet spot is where it where where the business feels good. So you've landed on things uh much quicker than I did. That's for sure. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

It's been a journey.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

I mean, I, you know, I had all of the the time up until starting my own business, where I originally I thought I would focus primarily on helping HR teams work more like people experienced teams. And and while I still do some of that work, um, and I'm still very passionate about that work, I think the work that I want to do more in the consulting space and and working with leadership teams is has shifted because I've seen that the impact that I want to have is on the organization at large, not just the work of the HR function.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

And it's so interesting there, even I think this is, you know, um when we're in the spaces we're in, we have a lot of choice as to how do we construct, you know, what we work on. So you've mentioned, you know, the predominant work you want to do is in this space, but that doesn't stop you from doing work in other spaces that you're interested in. So I think we've we have a lot of agency there. Sometimes I think we forget we can we can use that agency. We kind of get stuck in the you have to fit a box, you have to do one thing. So I'm again glad you challenged some of that and go, I I can still do the things I'm interested in and I can still do the work that's got the bigger purpose and I can actually fit it all together, which is really, really cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah, I came up with this analogy of what's the work that's gonna turn the lights on versus turn the lights up. And, you know, probably that aligns to best self too, right? And that to be my best self, I need to financially support myself, but also I need to have work that's meaningful and allows me to grow and develop and whatever else. And so I think it it just comes down to prioritization. One of the biggest challenges I've found in the first few months of running my own business is probably the tension between those things and having my focus scattered, like on a week where I'm trying to do way too many different projects, I feel like I make no progress. Whereas if I decide I'm going to I I like the term sequencing, right? Like this week I'm gonna focus on this thing and next week I'll focus on that thing. Because sometimes the word prioritization feels a little bit like you're deprioritizing something.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Like it's not important, but actually it's just that can come later. And there's something more urgent. And so it's for me, it's been very much about figuring out what needs to happen now versus what can happen later. What is something I'm really passionate about that I want to build, but I'll do it when I have time rather than right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Um I love that as a reframe, sequencing instead of prioritizing. Because I do think, especially again, the spaces we're in have a lot of ideas. We want to do a lot of things, and it's sometimes like, I don't, well, I don't not want to do something. But it's like if we think of it as sequencing, I think it's such a nice way of looking at it. Maybe right now is not the right time to do this thing, but a time will come. So I'm gonna keep it there, not letting go of it. Um, but I'll come to it if and when the time is uh right. So I do like I like that a lot as a reframe. Something you've kind of touched on a couple of times now is this lens of best self to different facets of life. So you've talked a little about the you know the daily rituals, you've talked a little bit about how it's blended into the into the business, a little bit of finances. But you did mention earlier on as well around other parts of your well-being and more holistically looking at bet best self. Um, do you have anything you're doing in that regard? Like how how are you weaving best self into some of the other domains of your life?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

The biggest one for me is how I show up in my relationship with my husband. Um, you know, living in London before moving back to Australia, it was constant, right? Like it is a very busy place. Work takes precedent a lot of the time. And whilst my husband was very happy to support me in my career development and growth and put some of his career goals kind of to the side so he could support me in mine, that can't last forever. And I'm not being my best self for him if I don't allow him, if I don't let him be his best self either. Or if we're making trade-offs that mean the other person is taking on too much or whatever else. So I think the biggest thing for me has been, I mentioned it earlier, like scheduling my lunch breaks and making sure that I take them so that I can spend them together with him. I mean, the joys of working from home means that I can actually do that. Um, but also, I mean, he's a fantastic cook. I we we um connected over our joy of food when we first met. And then over time he became more of the one doing all the cooking in the household. But I don't want him to become resentful of that. And so something we've talked about at times is, you know, planning out the week ahead, who's gonna be cooking on what days, what meals do we want, and make those decisions together so that then I can schedule them into my week and I can make sure that I'm contributing to that part of our life as well, because I know that's important to him. Um, and also I think another big thing was making the decision to move home from London after, you know, seven years with built a big life there, and it would have been great to stay there for my career. And hopefully it'll be great to have moved home too. Um, but ultimately, long term, it wasn't going to be great for our family life. And we wanted to be closer to not only closer to family, but also just, I guess, have the quality of life that comes from being in Australia. And that was a decision that I had to really look through that lens of best self. And I think one of my other values is is probably more tied to achievement and learning and development, growth and whatever else. And I had to look at that move as something that would nourish all of those values rather than over-index on one of them, which is what was happening in London.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Hmm. I th I th I think there's there's so many interesting things there. That one, that that point you've just finished on, it's so hard. There's always a tension. Like it, it's sometimes it's there are values we have which come into conflict with each other at certain points in in life. And that that's but that's where the difficult decisions I find. That's where the difficult decisions are. You mentioned a couple of values. I think we've got some overlapping values there around achievement and growth, and fun's one of my strong ones. But the fun one often is that's the one that will sometimes come into conflict with the other ones because sometimes you've got to do boring things to achieve good goals. So it's uh so I um I totally feel you're there in terms of they come into conflict. Do you how do you balance one against the others, or how do you look at decisions more holistically? And it sounds like in the move, it was more of a looking at all of them holistically and going, how can can I create balance across all of them? Um which I think is quite quite fascinating. Um, so what I'd love to end on is really just uh for a little bit of a chance for you to talk about some of the awesome things you're working on. So you've you've talked a little bit about kind of your focus with uh POLINATEXD. Um Mike's over to you. What are some of the things you'd like to go? Hey, this is something cool I'm working on that I'm enjoying at the moment, that is bringing the best self to fruition.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah. I mean, the biggest one in the Pollinate XD world is that I'm looking to work with, you know, three to five founders and leadership teams to run a half-day workshop, which helps them to align on what high performance means for their organization so that they can ensure everyone's pulling in the same direction. Um, so you know, for anyone who's feeling confused about priorities or expectations, or that, you know, teams are running in different directions and it doesn't feel like everything's really gelling, then that might be something that might be of interest. I'm trying to make that super experiential and help leadership teams to understand a lot of what we're discussing today, right? But on I mean, it's kind of theoretical how we're talking about it today. I'm going to be running some activities that help people to realize the true value of that and how that might show up in their work and translate uh to some alignment. Uh, and then the other thing is I'm working with Adam Axon on something called PX Dojo, which is a space for HR leaders initially, but we'll probably open it up to anyone in future who is responsible for designing the experience of work to learn about the fundamentals of people experience design, particularly, particularly. It's a difficult word to say, particularly um applying UX and product management principles to how we intentionally design work.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

I love it. Adam's actually coming on the show as well. So uh I he'll I'm sure he'll also talk about this as well. What a dream team. Great, a great combo, uh, the both of you working on this. I think that'll be an awesome experience as well. Um, thank you so much for coming on the show. Some very as uh I'm not surprised, but very thoughtful responses. And I I really appreciate your uh time and insights into this uh very interesting uh value of best self. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.