SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Values Lab, a podcast series for founders and portfolio career professionals seeking inspiration to live a more values-led life. And today I'm delighted to have Jen Ryder on the show. And Jen creates spaces for leaders to grow and is on a mission to save the world from dull questions and auto-responses. So hopefully we don't have too many dull questions today, Jen. And Jen is going to be talking about the value of growth. And what I find so interesting is Jen and I worked together a couple of months ago on a workshop. When I walked in, Jen had set up the space. And one of the things that was really fascinating about the space that Jen had set up was that there were loads of books everywhere. There were these provocative questions on everyone's uh in front of everyone on their on their table. And I always find it so fascinating in terms of how people set up their spaces and what a reflection of their values they are. And I think just the facet of having those books there, having those questions there, I think is such an indicator that growth is such a strong value for you. So I'm looking forward to exploring this with you, Jen. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I'm fantastic, and it's so interesting to hear that. Um, isn't it funny? These are the things that I just automatically do when you've taken so much meaning from it. Uh I hope my members do the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

But I do think it's that it is quite funny with values, those automatic things that we do, we take them for granted, but they're often such an indicator of what we actually truly value. So um I'm really looking forward to exploring growth with you. And I think let's start from the position of what does growth mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I think um I think growth is one of those things that's of I've been pondering this a little bit and and going for me the there's a fundamental part around learning and knowledge and and that sort of aspect, but then there's the the much bigger sense of what it means to grow as a person and to to grow a community and to grow a way of life and a way of being and and create something better for for others as we go. And I think that's really changed to me over the years. What does growth mean? It used to mean picking up a book and learning something from a textbook or going to a session, something like that. Whereas now it's very much about that introspection and reflection and seeking that insight around um how we can be better.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Isn't that so um is is this is actually one of the things I didn't mention, is one of our shared values because growth is one of mine as well. So it's uh it's so interesting hearing your perspective on that. And what I'm curious to know is when did that that shift change from, hey, I'm going to pick up a book and that's how I'm going to learn to this slightly more uh reflectful and um looking at the kind of broader impact side of things. Do you do you know when that kind of shift happened or?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Uh I think it happened um a large part of it happened around uh when I walked into a peer group, right? Where I was a member and I walked into the room for um what was back then the executive connection is now vestig. And it was about uh I walked in there, I was, you know, 30, early 30s, bulletproof. I had my MBA, I knew everything. I was just oh so clever. And um, and I thought, what can I possibly know, learn here? But uh, you know, I'll I'll learn something, and if not, I'll help somebody else, right? And then I really quickly realized that I had no idea about who I was in the world, and I had no idea about how I interacted with people and the impact that that had. And so for me, it really shifted from being about accumulating knowledge to accumulating understanding. And I think that that was that was where the shift really happened.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

I think it's such an interesting evolution, isn't it? It's you know, you we can know so much, but then as soon as we're thrown into a situation where that's put to the test, it's like, well, how much do I actually understand about how the world operates? Do you remember any specific moments in that group where you're like, ah, actually, maybe I don't have all the answers. Or do you remember anything specifically that really pushed you to go like, oh, actually, this there's there's a lot for me to pick up and learn still?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Interesting. Uh I would think it was in my very first session when I was um you, you know, and we go through a process and and everybody's uh giving their ideas and I'm just absolutely firing off all of these things. So somebody goes, Yeah, but hang on, what are the unintended consequences of that particular action? Have you thought of this, this, and this? And I'm like, Oh, I'm like, no, like, why would I? I just had the answer. I didn't need to think of all these other things. Um, and you know, people who are decades more experienced than me and have have all of this life experience too, and they've gone on that that kind of journey of growing and understanding themselves before me. And I just remember shrinking and being like, oh, okay, uh, you see me.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

It's so interesting that's how you position it. Because I I I'm such a big believer in the power of like cognitive diversity and bringing groups together where there is a a mix because it's not it's not just the knowledge pieces you've mentioned, it's the experiences. What have you been through? How do you see the world? There's so much to learn from all of that as well. And sometimes it's it, yeah, there's a the as a the saying goes, there's book smart and then there's street smart, and I'm sure there's other other types of smarts.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yes, absolutely. What does growth mean to you, Byron, as your value?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Um, the growth for me is a lot around what you mentioned the phrase, it's for me is about trying to get better every day. So I actually I I'd read this book and I don't actually like the book very much, but it it has this concept in there which I which I love. And uh the book, I think it's 10x is better than 2x. And there's a bunch of reasons I don't like it a lot. But there's a concept in there which I do really like, which talks about gaps and gains, and that had a really big impact on me. It's um, I think often when you are running a business, we're all often looking at the gaps, we're like, oh, I should have been here, I should have done that. And actually, when you flip it around and go look at the gains and go, how am I better today than yesterday? How am I better today than last year, this point last year? And actually that shift is really, really powerful. And actually, when I look back through my my entire life, actually, even if I look back when I did my masters, my masters was all about growth-focused goals and actually goals about getting better and improving. So this concept of just getting better every day, improving, and mastery, I think those kind of concepts have been very um prevalent through my whole life, academically, just through living, and yeah. So there's I think there's a bit of overlap there, but I think there's some other things that you've uh you've mentioned that uh add a bit of difference. Now, do you recall when you discovered that this was an important value to you? In whatever shape or form it took.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Uh I do not remember uh where when when I realized it was an important value to me. But I I I can probably ascertain where it came from and why it was important to me. Um and I think I think right back to um my probably my father more than anything. Um classic he was like one of the kind of uh first tree changers. They left Sydney and moved to the bush in New South Wales, and they bought this property um that was like 10 acres, 30k out of town, which is not a property, it's it's a small block of land 30k out of town. Um but the really important thing to him was that that it was about um creating space for us to flat for for having a family and and having a spot for us to grow. But what was really interesting is classic, um, my dad's just always been this classic kind of boomer, blue-collar, hard worker. Um, over the years, did any any job that he could to, you know, to get by. And then um he ran his own business for a number of years, and the things that he went out himself and learned and grew and and learned to understand, and the way that he would always push us um to be anything we wanted to be, and we could do anything, and you know, and I mean a lot of those boomers are now kind of curious about why they pushed us all so hard. Um so that's fascinating. But even now, like he's um he volunteers at the at the St. Vincent's shop in town um because he wanted to learn how to use a cash register for for no other reason. So so I think that that's kind of I don't know. I think it's just been part of my life as always to been to try and grow and be better and and learn new things.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

That's um I suspect that's it. Well, it's for a lot of people, it has been uh, you know, a number of people speak to them. It's where did the their values come from? And parental influence comes up um a good deal. Not not not probably not super surprisingly, but it is interesting to see what qualities our parents had that are kind of then they've either I think in this instance it sounds like it's intentional. They've intentionally kind of deliberately passed on this value. Sometimes it's through accident, but in this case it sounds quite intentional. They role model the value, this is what you see. I love that story of just going, hey, I want to know how to use a cash register, let's uh pick up a volunteer opportunity and yeah, 75 years old.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And and so when it comes to this value, um, how do you find yourself uh embedding it into the way in which you operate now? So this might be how do you in your personal life, it might be something you do in your professional life, how do you infuse this value into what you do?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I get to do this every day. Um this is this is what I call a day job now, right? Uh so for me it's about um uh pushing myself out of my comfort zone more often than not. Uh and when I get really stuck, it's because I realize that I actually just need to push a little bit harder. Um, I mean, I I work with business owners and business leaders, and my whole existence is about creating a spot where they can stop and think and learn uh and and grow themselves, their businesses, their team, their family, all of those sorts of things. So I think from a professional point of view, that's I live and breathe it. Uh and I'm so fortunate. And the community that I'm in, right, with part of Vistage and every chair that you come across, we're all we're all wired in the same way, and that we really want to help people do the same thing. For me personally, uh I think it's about um that reflection piece is the really important thing to me, is that I mean, I read a lot, sure. Um not as much as some because some people are voracious and I I try my hardest, but I you know I have a small child and that's demanding. But um, but it's about that introspection and the understanding of well, hey, what's the gap and what did that really mean? And where's the the growth in this? I'd love to say I'm a really good gardener, but I'm I'm not. I can't grow things. I can grow people, but not tomatoes. That's not certainly not hydrangers.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Anyway, that's a good good tag, isn't it? I grow people, not tomatoes.

unknown 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I'm gonna take that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

I might go. There's a couple of things you mentioned which I think are quite interesting. The first one I'd love to unpack is you mentioned, you know, pushing yourself outside your comfort zone, realizing that sometimes you if you're feeling uncomfortable, it's about pushing yourself a little bit further. Can you talk to me about practically what does that look like? How do you kind of go, hey, is it like you're waking up going, I'm gonna push myself outside outside my comfort zone today? And is it something you try and do every day? Tell me about how do you find these opportunities that I need to push a little bit harder to grow?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Oh, look, I think running your own business is is a daily lesson in this, isn't it? Um and and going, you know, waking up that day and going, I'm going to leave a, you know, lovely full-time uh paid employment. And because what's the worst that can happen? Uh we just can't see what happens. So I think I think that was um that's been the biggest catalyst for me in the last few years at least, to go, uh okay. And then every day you wake up and you're like, okay, so today I need to go and be a salesperson. Oh goodness, that feels all good. Uh, but you know what? What's the worst that can happen? So I think that that's that's been um that's what it looks like. I will intentionally force myself to do things that I may not want to do sometimes, go to events or um uh I don't know, go to places that I ordinarily wouldn't desire to go. I'd be quite happy to go and sit in the park and read a book. Um, but I I will, you know, intentionally force myself to go to an event, whatever it may be, that I ne wouldn't necessarily typically choose to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Because it's got to be a lesson there.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah, no, and I think that's quite interesting because I like speak to a lot of founders and people that are, you know, portfolio career professionals, they look into network and they will often go like you know, they'll defer to the things that are in the comfort zone. So what are some of the things you do to actually, you know, you're in that situation, you could go and read a book in the park, but you're you're making a choice not to, and even though that's might have discomfort or less desire associated associated with it. What are you saying to yourself? What are you doing to kind of like make that shift?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Interesting. Um what's the worst that can happen? It's usually one of my my number one sayings. Um, but I think it's about um I think what actually gets me in there is more about well, who's that, you know, what's that one thing I can take out of this in terms of there'll there will always be um there'll always be somebody in that room that is fascinating and I'm going to have a conversation with them and there'll be something that comes out of it that I'll learn and or I'll learn from the conversation in terms of how to do it better next time. So I don't think I have an internal dialogue around it. Isn't it funny? It's more of a reaction.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

But I do think it's interesting because you've said, you know, I'm a big fan of mantras, and actually, in in backgrounds in sports psychology, I talk about having these mantras a lot. And like, even just things like what's the worst that can happen, just that thing we can say to ourselves that jolts us into a different way of acting, I think is is really powerful. You know, that even this year I've had the I've had the one I've got I usually I'm moving house, so I don't have my monitor with my sticky notes, but one of the ones I could see most prominently is imperfect action because I'm a little bit of an overthinker. So just having that mantra of any time I'm at that crux, imperfect action, just go with the thing that I've decided to do uh or decide to focus on is really is really powerful. So just the couple that you've got there, you know, what's the worst that can happen or what's the one thing I can learn are quite powerful shifts when you're trying to make that decision of entering the discomfort. So I think it's uh it's interesting. Those are the those are the things that you come back to, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, absolutely. I'll certainly be paying attention to it. I think next time I'll be walking into a into a room going, huh, what did I say to myself?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah, how did I drop myself into action? How did I get here? And now you mentioned you've taken the leap as well from the full time to the wonderful world of running a business. How long ago did that happen? And was there I'm always fascinated by is this something you deliberately set out to do? Was it a plan? Was it something you just decided to do? And then the leap, I think so many people sit on that precipice of like, should I go? Should I not? How did what did it look like for you to make that jump?

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Um it looked like a, it was really intentional. Um, so not in terms of starting my business, that was not the intentional part of it whatsoever. Leaving the role I was in was really intentional because it was a real trade-off for me. Um, I wasn't living my values. So I I found um, and that was for a number of reasons. I was trying to do a full-time job in four days a week uh in uh, you know, a CEO role of a really long established business that um that needed a there was a lot of change management around what where the business wanted to go and the history and all of those sorts of things. And I had a little baby girl. I think um, you know, I think my little girl was sort of two, two or three at the time. Um because the last few years, time is not an object to us, it just happens around you. And um, and I decided that I couldn't do all of those things well, and everything was suffering, and I was suffering. Um and so I just went, you know what, I'm going to just stop, stop right here, and what's the worst that can happen? Maybe that is my mantra. Um and and then I decided, well, what do I want this to look like? So it was really, it was really intentional about um stopping. And then and then it took me a while to figure find my feet about what I was going to do. And I still don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Well, it's uh as he as you as you mentioned there, it it is like it's um it's a very steep learning curve. Look, I I say this, I don't think it not everyone agrees with me, but I think running a business and raising a kid, they're kind of equally steep running learning curves. I think they've got lots of seminars. It's it's not a very popular thing that I say, but I do think they're both quite quite quite tricky. They both force you into the uh um growth zone at least, uh outside your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, and one's far easier to control than the other. Wow. Which one's you think easier to control? Oh, the business 100%. You can't control a child. Certainly not mine, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

They're both wild. They're both wild. I can't control either.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, so you'd make you made the leap, and I think, yeah, as you'd said, I think it is when you run your own thing, it is growth every day. You've kind of got to wear so many different hats, and yeah. It's um now. I I mean I guess this might depend a little bit on your background, but given all the hats you wear, I mean, which one do you find has pushed you to grow most? Because I think some people have a default hat which they find easiest when they start a business, and then there's other areas which they find less comfortable. And I'd love to know from your perspective, what was what was the easy hat, and then what's the hat that's pushed you outside more than you maybe expected?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I think um when I started, so when I started um my business or my by sort of working in this capacity that I do portfolio style, right? Um the easiest thing for me was to decide who I didn't want to work with. That that became really clear about you know what who are the the types of people and businesses that I want to work with. Um and the the marketing aspect, I the problem was is that I couldn't define what I was actually doing. And so I started agreeing to do all these things for all these types of people. Um and that just got me by and kind of got the bills paid and kept going and did all of those sorts of things. But what I would default to was the planning, and I'm I'm really good at the, you know, if you tell me where you want to be, um, I can I can get you a great plan. What I'm not going to do is implement that plan overly well without a team of people around me. Um, and I'm not going to follow consistent processes because rules are for other people, they're never for me. Um and uh and thereby I'm probably not going to get anywhere really quick. So uh I worked that out super duper quick and went, hmm, mate, you need to find a way where you don't need to have all of those things as part of your day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Uh yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Does that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

It makes sense because it's very similar to my the start of my journey, which is I and I actually say it's probably not too bad a thing when you start to say yes to lots of things because you've got to figure out what you like, what you don't like, what you're effective at delivering, what you're less effective at delivering. I think it's good, but it often hits a point where you can't like I can't now do everything. It doesn't make sense. It's hard to market or it's hard to actually, it doesn't feel fulfilling, or whatever the reasons are, but you you get a point where it's like, okay, I need to now trim down and focus a bit more. Um so it's very it makes sense because it reflects very much my own experience as well. Um doing things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, absolutely. I think I was really, really good at um learning all of the things that I mean, and I'd run businesses before, right? But it was entirely true. I was like, so I went down this whole hole of well, what a site to run your own sort of solo business and and I'd learn all these things and all the things you should do. And Lord, I was so overwhelmed. I didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

It's quite exhaustive. There's a lot of, especially if you've got like simple, like we've both got the value of growth. So it's it's fascinating learning about all these things, but they don't all apply right now. And sometimes it's like, and I know I learned that probably the hard way is some stuff is for more mature businesses. You don't actually need it when you're like year one or year two.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

You don't need to you just need to do things.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

You just need to and some things are not even the right thing for your business, you know. You can go down this path of optimizing your sales funnel and all of these things. It's like, but do I actually need to do that? Like, is that right for me right now? Maybe, maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Ugh. And so Given growth is one of your drivers, and you mentioned you know portfolio career, you have opportunities coming up, and you're you know, we've gone from saying yes to lots of things to narrowing that down. How much how do you how much do you factor in growth as a variable when you're looking to take an opportunity or not? Is it something like you're is in the mix or yeah?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Interesting. Um one of the things I've learned about myself, I always thought I was really good at saying no and setting boundaries and doing all of those things. And turns out I'm not so good. Um, I'm really good at telling other people how to do that and making a suggestion that this is the way you should live your life. Uh and so I've said yes to everything, pretty much, with a few exceptions. Um, and then I stopped doing that because as we've talked about, that's really hard and it's virtually impossible to run a business like that. Um, and now it is absolutely about um, like I I got asked to run a session probably, I don't know, a few months ago. Um, and I had a really good understanding of the business and the the owners, and and I was like, oh, I just don't, oh, this feels really, oh, this is tricky. This feels way out of my depth. And then I stopped for a second and went, what better time to learn? Because they know me, they trust me, um, I trust them. This is this is a felt felt like a safe place to kind of take that jump. So yes, I do factor it into into the work I choose to do or not do.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

But I isn't that interesting as well. What even just you described that the conditions had to be right there for you to go, yeah, this is the right moment to stretch and jump into something new. Whereas I imagine if the conditions weren't the same, you might have gone, look, this is not the right time.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Or maybe Oh, I'd like to think I would have, but um, but it was really it was it was an area and a skill I really wanted to hone. So I think that that's maybe the difference too, is that if it was something where I was like, that's not really something I want to do when I grow up, then maybe not. So yes, and yes and no. I think both things can be true.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah. Um what I'd love to know from your perspective as well, is you know, thinking about growth as a value, is how do you how do you personally decide what skills you're going to focus on developing? So what's is there a process you go through to go, hey, this is my focus area. I'll give you a little bit of background to why I'm asking that question as well. Because I I found over especially the space I work in, so I you're working in people and culture, so I know a lot of other uh consultancies in this in this space, and I find there's a cohort that will focus a lot on professional development, and I'll just stack up accreditations. And I'm always curious to know, okay, why are they going down that approach versus the focusing on learning let's say the business skills or other skills that we need to kind of learn? So I'd love to know what's your take on how do you approach picking which which things you're gonna focus your own personal professional growth on?

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Um I generally pick the things that are the hardest.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

So for instance, for me, so the big thing for me has been this kind of sales concept. Um and that it debilitated me for a little bit. And then I went, Wang, I know you're gonna run a business without dealing with this. This is crazy. Um so uh that I focused on it because it was the hardest and it was the most important at the same time. So then I mean, I don't know, I'm more of a take the opportunity as it comes too, as opposed to necessarily seeking out, um, I'm going to go and do this particular accreditation. Or and I think I've learned over the years too that um accumulating that the the qualifications to accreditations doesn't actually necessarily teach you anything. Um it's the learning by doing where it really happens. So I'll seek those opportunities to to hone those skills through their luck. Sales is a great example. Yes. Or um trying to think of what else.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Well, sales is a good example because I think it's one of those things that commonly comes up as people have either an aversion to it or find it, and it I mean it's it's particularly difficult, but more difficult, challenging these days, because it is very noisy. There's a a a lot out there. And so I think the ability to kind of get cut through and sell so key.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, and I think though the the really interesting thing has been a shift in mindset, and I guess the the growth that I've had that's come from it is that I'm not really selling anything. Yeah. Um at the end of the day, uh I help people with certain things that they may or may not need at that point in time. So it's it's entirely different to this sort of concept of um like the you know, the olden day admin kind of I think that's been the the biggest growth for me is actually just the change in mindset.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah. So rather than being something you're kind of pushing out, you're like you're just trying to find where there is this natural fit between what you're offering, who you're offering it to, and people that genuinely need that here and now. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Um and then on the, I guess the other thing I hear people struggling with a lot is then prioritizing learning development and growth when they're wearing lots of different hats, they're trying to, you know, build the business, like carving out the time. And I'm interested, do you have any like rhythms or rituals you have around creating the time for your own growth and for this particular value?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Um Well, I have to practice what I preach, right? So um, my view is that if I'm working with business owners and business leaders and I'm saying, you know, what happens if you don't put a day, uh a day a month aside to do this? Um the the world will pass you by and it'll and so for me, I view it that uh my learning and development, my growth is the very start of my flywheel, if you will. And so it's the thing I do every day, and I will read articles and I will read books and I will not I I don't always listen to podcasts. Um I'm sure uh, you know, there's everyone's got their preferences. There's no Yeah, I mean it's about how you learn, right? And so for me it's um typically through reading and and writing. But um, so there's a ritual that I have that you know, every day I will read something um that pushes me outside of my comfort zone and or I learn something from an article, a book, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

And so when you say every day, is this something you've kind of like have you is there a time of the day you do it?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Is it like what's your general uh Yeah, I mean, typically, do you know that um when the kids leave the house for school and and it's like something magical happens in that period of time? Silence is Yeah, I think that's what it is. That's the time of day for me where I will um most days, I mean not always, or some days I'll be out, but um typically I'll just choose that time to sit there and be like, right, let's just clear the mind and and do something.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah. And then how do you is there a system you've got for what you're going to what what you're going to read? Is there like, do you have like a a a list? Or what's your yeah, how do you pick on any given day as well?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Like uh No, I'm not a sister, uh I'm not a systems kind of person, which is fascinating because I've lived my whole life in operations.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

You're rebelling.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Maybe that's what it is. Like I said, I'm really good at creating systems and rules for other people. I'm not so good at following them myself. My husband, I can attest to that. So I think no, I don't. I take it as it comes and what interests me, and I um I'll hear things talked about, and it'll be um sometimes I will really it depends on my mood, but sometimes I'll find an article, um, particularly the Wall Street Journal's great for this, where you can find something that you would be like, oh, I don't want to read that. And you force yourself to read it just to see um maybe if you can be swayed. Or maybe there's just a an understanding in somebody else's viewpoint.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah. It's so interesting. This this is a recurring theme, obviously. You're trying to find those instances where is this thing going to be difficult or hard? And then, yeah, let me just jump in and see what how what what's the worst that could happen from this. Uh, and what's the one thing I can learn by just jumping in and trying to take a different perspective. And I love how it's it's just a recur, it seems like it's a recurring pattern and theme of seeking out discomfort to help you grow, which I think's uh super fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

What a weirdo, huh?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

That's awesome. And it's been so good to deep dive into this value. But all I'd love to do to kind of wrap up is give you a bit of an opportunity to talk a little bit about what are the things you you're kind of working on and doing. And I know you've got a you've got a great uh great group at Vistage that you're you're building. So can you tell us a little bit more about what are some of the things you are doing on a professional perspective that you'd like to kind of share and talk about and promote? This is your this is your chance. Your chance to sell.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

That's exactly what went through my head, and I was like, no, it's not selling, Jennifer. It's not selling, yeah. Um the look, the work I do is primarily I work with peer advisory groups, right? For um, for people as part of the vestige community. And the the way I love to think about this, and this is a I've borrowed this from a chair in the States who describes it as um test kitchen for half-baked ideas. So where people can can bring their their sort of great ideas and have them really tested and challenged by other people and learn where where they don't see things and where they where they might be going wrong. Um, but it's about so it's about that. But for me, it's really about what I always valued as a member and I now value as a chair, is watching people walk into a room. Um, and these people are incredibly busy, right? Like it's it's it's hard work running. And you see the weight of the world on their shoulders, um, and they come into that space, they don't have to think about work for the day in terms of they're not doing emails, they're not talking to their team, they're not doing any, it's their space. Um, and the way they walk out of there, taller and straighter and lighter, and just oh yeah, I love it. Um, so that's that's really the primary work I do, and and you know, I get to do that here in I live in Toowoomber and Queensland, Regional Australia. I have a regional Australia soapbox um that I'll get on at any chance I'm given around people who live and work in these communities, and and they're really it sounds corny, but the the heartbeat of the nation, like the stuff we do here, people grow our food and they manufacture the things that we all use. And and I think that getting to do that here is just the the beat's niece.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

It's amazing. And I I really um just when you were talking about like peer advisory and peer support, I I agree. When people just start talking to each other and realize, oh, I'm not alone, it's not just me that's going through these things, and then you just see this the physical impact of that realization, the fact that I can share with people that get it. I think it's so powerful. So amazing that you create these containers for people to do that. And I've seen firsthand you do that in such an amazing, growth-focused way. So it's uh it's uh awesome to see. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I've found it really fascinating, particularly as well as it's a shared value we've got. And I love the perspective you've shared. And I think you've kind of inspired me to maybe uh jump into some more uncomfortable things, actually, to help myself grow. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Well, excellent. I can't wait to hear about them. I want to say thank you to you because it's it's really funny. I think I hold space for people that ask some questions all day long. Um, and they often say the most valuable thing is hearing themselves out loud. And you've done exactly that for me today. That's been a a gift. So thank you, Virin.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Thank you. And that that makes me uh uh stoked because uh when I read your thing where it's like non boring questions, make sure it's interesting. So I'm glad we've had that chance.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Nailed it. Absolutely nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Uh thanks so much for coming on the show. Loved it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Thank you. Thanks, Virin.