Viren 0:00

Welcome to the Values Lab, a podcast series for founders and portfolio career professionals seeking inspiration to live a values-led life. And today I am delighted to have Leanne Hughes on the show. Now, Lianne is famous for making people famous at work, and I'm sure we're going to talk a lot more about her book, Work Fame, later on in the show. Now, I got to see Lianne in action maybe just a couple of months ago at this amazing conference she ran called Kong Con. But what was most impressive and most inspiring about Lianne is just the lack of lag between idea and action. I was really inspired by how quickly she gets things into action. And I'm sure the value we're going to talk about today is resourcefulness, and I'm sure that plays a role in moving quickly. So, Lianne, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

So good. And uh by the way, ConCon was amazing because we had DJ Tikra in the house, which is Virin's old ego DJing the whole conference, which made it even more magnificent. So yeah, great to see you, Virin.

Viren 1:05

Oh, thank you. And um I appreciate it. I had so much fun getting behind the decks. Um yeah, it was super cool. Um but we're gonna be talking about resourcefulness today. So I'd love to start with what does resourcefulness mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, well, sometimes when I like to define something, I like to look at what the opposite of that is. And I like when I was thinking about how to answer this for you, uh like I've like I've shared with you before, my number one is probably punctuality, which would bore listeners. So we won't talk about that. But resourcefulness for me is what kind of triggers, what annoys me is when sometimes like someone will send me a question and it's something they could very easily Google. Like there was that very famous website, let me Google that for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Where you basically, it's like a really kind of passive aggressive move where you just send something back and be like, hey, you didn't really need to ask this question, like it's available to you. And so those types of questions where it's like it's very easy to figure out yourself, um, is just demonstrate to me a lack of resourcefulness. So the flip side of that then is I guess using initiative, using what's whatever you have in front of you, whatever you have available right now to create the result that you're after. Um and I love it so much because when you're resourceful, the world just opens up for you. Like there are no limits because you really just start questioning processes, things that are set up, materials. Um and uh for me, it's just been a good one, like you you alluded to before, because you can then very quickly take an idea and make something out of it when you are resourceful. Um that's why I love it so much, is because it just opens up possibilities.

Viren 2:38

Oh, I love it. Well, I love I love talking about the opposite of it. And I did use, I used I couldn't help but laugh because I used that website a few times myself. It's like, oh Virin, where's the parking? I'm like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Do you really need to be able to do that? Oh, at the venue. Yeah, where's yeah. I I know. It's like we both have access, you know. This is the difference. This is the difference between the two types of people. Like we all have access to the same technology out there, you know, it's on our phones and Google's pretty well known.

unknown 3:09

Yeah.

Viren 3:10

It's been for a wee while. But I love then the flip side of when you were talking about it is like that it opens up so many doors and opportunities. If we are resourceful, if we look at using those things, uh, it's a really cool way of looking at it, that actually.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah.

Viren 3:23

We tap into this value, then the world is our oyster.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Big time, yeah.

Viren 3:28

And so obviously you're very passionate about this concept. Uh, when did you kind of first discover that this was one of your values? Or how did you discover it was one of your values?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Like, and I honestly think it was like because when I was a little kid, my parents didn't give me everything I asked for. Like, yeah, you know, so I wanted this beautiful tree house, and we didn't get that. So I just got some like old tarps and created my own tent at the back. But that served its purpose because I had like a mini getaway, you know, when I wanted to escape in the backyard. So I actually think it's from a lack of just getting what I wanted as a kid that led me to realise, oh, there's ways that you can repurpose the things around you and also get a great result at the same time. So um if I yeah, going that far back, it would be just as a kid doing that, you know, making costumes, not having the right, you know, my mum used to always sew our clothes when we were young. Um and just knowing that like I think people are kind of scared of, and maybe it's kind of leans into some of our mutual friend Miriam talks about unprofessionalism. And I know the word, you know, hacking and stuff like that, draft working in drafts has a bit of a bad rap and people want to put put out something polished. But being resourceful is also just like, hey, like just gathering whatever we have and just making something of it. And what you find is like it's quite fun. You use your imagination. Um and uh yeah, so I think that's where it came from, is just as a kid being uh not getting everything I wanted.

Viren 4:52

It it's so interesting because I think I having spoken to a few people, so many people talk to how their upbringing shaped their values. Do you think of this instance, is it something that your parents also value? Is it something they tried to instill in you, which is like, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

But they're also boomers. Like they can afford stuff now, but dad just still buys the cheap ice cream because it's on special. Like it's there's a generational thing. Yeah, and um, but I do think, yeah, well, I mean, because they were they were immigrants to Australia as well. They were starting off their life here, so they had to be quite, you know, scarce with their with how they used resources too. So I think just definitely growing up in that environment. Um, yeah, I would say definitely shaped my outlook.

Viren 5:32

Yeah, I and I I like that you talk to the the benefits of it as well, and in that yes, you don't have this perfectly polished output, but you do get a little bit more creative with what you do. And it reminded me uh there's a work Christmas function, and the theme was jungle book. This is probably my favourite ever costume that and I I just made it myself, I ended up making it myself.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah.

Viren 5:51

And I just went to Kmart and spent like $50 on soft toys, got a glue gun, and just glue gun massive soft toys all over my body. And I looked ridiculous, but but it was there's extra extra bit of creativity and ultimately created more uh something a little bit more memorable and funny at the at the end.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Totally. Yeah.

Viren 6:12

Which we wouldn't have got through if we didn't think about it as a resourceful approach. So I like that. Actually, it can result in better imperfect things that might not be as polished things are really nice. Consequence of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, yeah, big time. Yeah, and more I mean, I'm sure it was a big conversation starter as well because it was so unique and tailor-made, you know.

unknown 6:33

Yeah.

Viren 6:34

Um, so this is obviously something you're very passionate about. I've seen you be resourceful firsthand. But I'd love for you to share a little bit about how have you integrated this. I think we'll look at it because I think for you, I'd be interested in how you've integrated it into your career, but then I'm also interested in how you've integrated it into your business as well. So do you mind talking a little bit about how has it been something that's been helpful to you as you've kind of gone through your career?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Well, I guess uh most of the careers I've had when I've worked for an employer are things I could not do when I got the job. I just didn't have any idea about what you could do. So, like my one of my first I had a quarter life crisis and joined Wicked Camp is this big, uh like very controversial camper van company. Um, in a my my job was a wicked evangelist, like it was in global marketing. And I'd never worked in marketing before this. I'd worked in consulting for Accenture, a very uh, you know, the other side of almost the opposite. The opposite. If you if we have a continuum, it's Accenture versus Wicked Campers would be the two extremes. And so I've got this job with Wicked, never done marketing in my life, didn't even deserve the job. And like, what do you do? You have to become resourceful. You've got to learn, like, what is the industry? Who are the people here? How do you build a website? Like, how do you talk to travel agents and what what is business? What is BD anyway? What does that mean? Um how to run an ad in a paper. Like I had no idea, I had no contacts, nothing. Um, and so I've had to be resourceful in my career because I've had these jobs where I, you know, I've needed to do that. Then I moved to Broome in Western Australia after that job, um, where I because I married one of the mechanics at Wicked Campus. We were just dating back then, but that was a nice um end to the story. Um and but yeah, I was like thrown into this government role. Uh, you know, the marketing department was me, but I was also doing PR communications across the Kimberley, had to speak to journalists, had to do work in Adobe InDesign. I'd never even heard of the tool, and I'm suddenly designing things in it. Um, you have to lean on your resourcefulness because you're doing things that have never you've never done before. Yeah. Which is a great thing to have. Like in, I guess, in you know, 2026, we're so lucky now we've got tools like AI that can just like hold our hand as we work through, but it wasn't as easy back then. So that's been helpful for my career. Just as a quick business story. Oh, sorry, Jerry.

Viren 8:52

I was gonna say, in that in those instances, did you seek out those opportunities where you got to be resourceful? Were you like, this is a great thing. You're like, I don't know everything, so I'm going to get to be resourceful. Was that a positive or was it something that's like? It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And it's I yeah, I've never told this story before, but I actually had um, so you know, my favorite city in the world is Bangkok, right? So um, during when we could campus, I actually had an offer to work in Bangkok with a company called What If. They were a big travel, a big travel company. Um, and the first week I started there, I'm I actually got home um and I was crying. I like my mum's like, how is work? And this is when I I just visited her. And it was because everything had been pre-baked. Like they already had the logos, they already had a style guard, they already had their marketing plan locked in. And I I didn't like that because it was already there. And so I didn't end up taking that job. Um, because it was like a pre-baked gig.

Viren 9:47

Um I think that's such a good example of values misalignment when we're kind of looking at jobs. Because I think people will often look at other things, but actually, this is the exact thing we should be looking at, which is what are my values and how well does this opportunity align with, you know, if it's resourcefulness, whatever they are, it does is there a good Yeah. If I don't get the opportunity to be resourceful, I'm not going to be happy. I'm going to end up miserable.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah. And I don't think I called it out as a value so early, but um it was an emotional reaction. I mean, I think that like how many maybe twice in my life I've cried at work, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

And I don't I'm not a person that cries. And yeah, isn't it fascinating?

Viren 10:23

You cried this, you cried because everything was too well done already.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I mean, that's Yeah, but also crying because I guess like I really wanted to move to Bangkok, but I also knew that I wouldn't like I would be very dis like, yeah, I I just I definitely felt like it was a visceral thing.

Viren 10:37

Um I do think it's fascinating as well, that just that contrast because often the thing we think we will value is like the move to the city. Like I want to go to the big smoke and work in the city. That's more important than the job itself. And I think it's so interesting. I know how much you love Bangkok. Your number plate is in fact is Bangkok is the for your car. Like you love the city. But that is not enough to override when there's a misalignment to actually what truly matters to you and what's important. Yeah. So interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

But it's not to say that like obviously when I get these jobs when I have no idea what I'm doing, I'm also stressed. Like, this is not like I'm not like jumping with glee. It's very, it's not a nice situation to be in either, but I do seem to like it more.

unknown 11:17

Yeah.

Viren 11:18

And I guess if I go back to the very first, you mentioned Accenture as well. Was that then a similar thing where because they've got the things and you're working in bigger teams. Did you yes, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

I hated that job. Yeah. But I learnt a lot from it. It was very good to learn about systems and processes and very it was a very good learning curve.

Viren 11:35

So good for your personal like growth, but less of a values alignment and something you Yeah, and those good those jobs are good to take to widen your skills.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

When you're so young, you've got to really just find out what it is that you like and what you don't.

Viren 11:47

Yeah. Which I think is uh also interesting as well when we think a little bit about the decisions we make. It's not just about aligning with our values. It's really nice when things line up, but sometimes we take the we make a trade-off to go, not great for my values alignment, but good for my long-term future. And we've got to do those things sometimes, which I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah.

Viren 12:06

And so obviously resourcefulness has been a bit of a theme. You've taken on opportunities where maybe the playbook doesn't exist and made stuff happen. I mean, what what in those situations did you kind of rely on? How did you kind of go about navigating those situations?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, I think a big part of this is having trust in your like having self-trust, like knowing that you can do it. I think that's what often pulls people back from because like, you know, I get all the time, people ask me all the time, like, how did you get started? And for me, I'm not the right teacher for that because I can't I think a good teacher is someone that's been through it, worked through that, and come out the other side. For me, it's always been an inherent thing. Like I have a deep self-trust. And even if I know, sure, it doesn't mean that I don't fail. Like I will often fail, but I know that um it's not a you know life or death, and I will sort of rebuild or learn or you know, something good will happen as a result later on. So I think having self-trust in your ability to figure it out. I mean, Marine Folio, you know, that word everything is figure outable. I definitely believe that, particularly for the stuff that we're doing. Like it's not, I don't think it's highly scientific or there's huge consequences. I think um so kind of just the risk, the risk is is quite low in my regard. And I think the opportunity to then grow is so high. But yeah, I think like in in 2026, there's really no excuse. Like you can ask AI anything, you can connect with the world experts around the world on LinkedIn, you can throw a question out there and get interesting responses that help you. Um, you can go to conferences on any niche topic in the world. There's a podcast on any niche topic. There's so much information to help you out. So um, yeah, I I I think it's that combination of of accessibility um, but also self-trust in that things will be okay.

Viren 13:53

I imagine as someone who's resourceful, this is what a time to be alive because the amount of resources to draw from is incredible. So incredible. As you say, back in the day when you had to be resour resourceful, you probably had to like go into the nook and crannies, but now actually the resources are abundant. So actually being resourceful. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, is uh Well, I for InDesign, like I had to buy a textbook on Adobe InDesign, right? And I and I had to actually go through the textbook and read it and then like try it out. Whereas now it'd be like, hey, um, I need to do this screenshot it. What's my next step? How do I build this? Or just builds me the brochure.

Viren 14:24

So you obviously made the leap to start your business. And I um I guess what I'm interested to know is how have you integrated resourcefulness into your business. I mean, I think running a business requires a massive amount of resourcefulness anyway.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah, huge.

Viren 14:37

But I think you you do it in a different way from what I've seen. Like I'm I'm I was as I said, I was really impressed by just your ability to execute ideas. So I'm really keen to hear like how have you leaned on this value more so than what you would what someone ordinarily would when it comes to running a business. Because I do think it's uh almost a prerequisite. But you've done it to an nth degree.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So I think I could be more resourceful for sure. But um well, I I think even just starting like the the business even started off the back of a being resourceful thing within my career. So I was working for a big mining company, they they had no money to pay for external facilitators, so they put me into the facilitation role. I'd never done it before. Suddenly I'm in Canada running workshops and failing. So I got back to Australia. I'm like, what do I do? Like, I need to get better at these workshops. And so I rang, um, yeah, just uh sort of created a podcast called First Time Facilitator because I was looking for podcasts about it. Yeah. And none existed at the time. I mean, there's so many now, but back then there were no podcasts about workshops. So I was like, oh, well, this doesn't exist, so I'll start it. Um, so that was one element. And like that kind of led me to build an audience, um, and then exit my job a year later.

Viren 15:48

Um, so I hadn't realized you started the podcast whilst you're in your in your job.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yeah.

Viren 15:54

That's that that is fascinating. So often sometimes we wait, again, we're waiting for the opportunity to leave and then we've got blank canvas. But you started it, you're in the job, and like I'm just gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

And that was the the craziest thing. Because I and this has sort of led to my next book, Work Famous, because um when I started that podcast, like, yeah, like my manager sent me to run these workshops. No one in the business knew who I was. Like I was just I was quite different. This is like 2016. And then um, the second I started doing this podcast, I became more work famous within my organization. And then I got every opportunity in the world. So people talk about building a brand, they're like, do things internally. I just built my brand externally and then it kind of fed over.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Um it was really interesting. And off the back of a need, like, I need to get better at these workshops because I'm just terrible.

Viren 16:40

Um, did you almost and uh it sounds almost like you you had this need to grow and develop in this area and you're like, well, I'm just gonna record the chats I have. Is that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

That's all it was, yeah. Cause like and it because it obviously um when you have a podcast, it opens the door to getting like really great people on your show because you have a platform as opposed to and like I it actually started with phoning people and going, what would you have done in Canada during this workshop when this happened? And then I thought, oh, this would be a useful chat. I'm sure other people might find it helpful. Yeah, that's that's just how it started. Um so that I mean that's one example of just like scratching, I think scratching your own itch is is a good thing. Yeah. And just I I always, you know, in science they have like n equals one, like the net the test case equals one. And I think if if it's an n equals one on any problem, there are people, other people in the world that have the same problem as you.

Viren 17:28

So it's not just going to be you that's struggling with this thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

No, no, we're not that unique and special. Like there's someone and if like the first the first listener actually after two weeks was someone in Canada, uh, Aminada, that emailed me. And up until that point, I thought it was just like my family listened to listening to it. So yeah, and even like so the book deal that I got on work fame with a publisher, um, I had the idea of work fame as a phrase, but I didn't know what it meant. But I still um didn't stop me from like messaging publishers about it. And that's how I got the book deal um without writing a proposal, you know? So yeah, I just think um what resourcefulness really it's it's really questioning. Like people tell you, or you assume as a process, like so I'd assume to get a book deal, I need to write a 50-page proposal because everyone tells you to do that, right? They tell you to write a 50-page proposal. Um and you gotta, you know, be well connected, you gotta have like big audience figures, especially on like things like Instagram and stuff like that. So I could have waited for you know to get 50,000 followers and to write a 50-page proposal, but you if you when you question that, you're like, well, what is the result that I want? I want I want this idea out in the world. Um why not go direct? Like that makes sense. Like, yeah, but and well-meaning people do give you advice on how to do things, but I think you need to question like what is the result that you're after, and often you can bypass that or shortcut it or do something else.

Viren 18:51

I love it. I love that a few different things of that. Firstly, the thing that keeps like the phrase that is resonating in my head is almost like just don't wait. Like it's tempting to wait until we've got all the bits in place. Yeah. Don't wait. Get like have an idea of where you want to go and just try something and do something. Um but also this piece around again when you're running a business, I think the temptation is to look at all the different ideas people have about how to run a business, but every business is unique. You kind of got to figure out your own path and way of doing it. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

And like I I yeah, I I think and that also comes back to I guess what you s alluded to before, like knowing what your values are, what your strengths are, what you know, what what actually will work for you. Um and that's anytime I give advice, I'm I'm I'm always like, uh just think about whether this will work for you. Like in yeah, yeah.

Viren 19:44

Absolutely. You know, I think that's a key part of it. And you know, this is why I love these chats around values, because I think obviously leaning into resourcefulness is important, but it obviously works extra well for you. So it's something that I imagine, I'm guessing, is something you're just dialing up more and more as you get older. It's like you get this positive cycle of you lean into your value, you kind of it's difficult, but it you enjoy it and it works. And so you go, let's dial this up even more and more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

That's so cool. That's good observation, yeah.

Viren 20:12

Yeah. So is that the case? Is that has been something you've been kind of um It is.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Um I I still have to snap my, I still have to um wake myself up sometimes, right? So if I'm thinking, okay, it's like mulling on a problem and I'm like the the default is always like, oh, uh how other people have done it. And I actually have to say, I actually have to remind myself, you don't have to do that. And so what is the result that you're after? And then like, you know, I literally go like write question assumptions around it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Is this true? How do we know this is true? Um, if that's the result that you're after, how could you do this in a way that's easier or more or cheaper or faster? And you know, just brainstorming around that. But I have to pull myself up because my default is like still like while I am dialing it up, sometimes I still have to go, hang on, you're going about this like Lian, like it's the self-talk. Like, wake up. What is another way of doing this?

Viren 21:06

So what do you say? Like, what's the thing? Do you just say is that the phrase you use? Like what Lian, wake up? Like is that the little trigger phrase you use to uh Yeah, it's like just staff out of it.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Like, what why? Like it's because like I'll have this list of things like you know, and there's like one thing on the list that I just do not want to do, right? And it's like, I do not want to do that. I'm like, hang on, wake up. Like, could you make this more fun? Could you could you do it out in the lounge room instead of at your workstation? Could you, you know, put a timer on? Like so I have to constantly just do question that.

Viren 21:34

I I think it is it's hard, and I I say this a lot. It's there's a lot of forces that draw us away from our values. So I think it's we're constantly fighting so much stuff to live in alignment. So we do need I always say these little mantras and phrases that kind of like wake up is such a good one because it's so action oriented, and I'm sure you say that to yourself, and it's like, oh yeah, now I can think of a different way of approaching this and start questioning the assumptions and all these things.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah, yeah, because like even it's like I mean, as a solopreneur. Like I'm doing stuff to myself that's like why would I do that to myself? But you yeah, you do have to question it all the time. Um so and it makes yeah, it makes life more interesting as well for sure.

unknown 22:10

Yeah.

Viren 22:11

And do you have any other like tips for resourcefulness? I you know, someone's like, Oh, this is all resonating and I want to become more resourceful. What are some of your go-to like uh techniques that you use or yeah?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, well I think um and this is thinking that Alan Weiss taught me. I I went to one of his um webinars on uh he called it ferocious time management. I was like, what can I like I've read every time management book in the world. Like what can I do? Yes, punctuality. And um but the the th the key framework that stood out for me was he talks about results and tasks. And and I apply this across every element of my life, you know, because when I started my business, I'd talk about the tasks and the methodology and what I'd do with a client. Um but now like when I'm writing, it's not even a it's not a to-do list. It's like what do I want to create? Right. So I start with that. Um so an example could be I want to have a, oh, I've got to clean, clean the house, right? That could be like a to-do list. But it's like, well, I want to create a welcoming environment where I want to create a space. So and it's a completely different the task and a completely different compared to what you need to achieve. So I think I'd encourage listeners or viewers just to start thinking about like what is the actual result? Like, what do you want to create? And then you you realize all these things that I thought I needed to do, maybe it's something else. Or so that I would just start with just questioning what do you actually need to do because to create the result that you're after. That's the big one. Yeah.

Viren 23:42

I love it. I thought again, another theme I'm kind of hearing is just questioning, question everything almost. It's like that it's the start of resourcefulness, is just question everything, question the assumptions, question how we do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah, it is. Yeah, because I I mean this even came through at Concon because I did a session on wildcard proposals.

Viren 23:58

Yes, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah. And um one of the women there, because I was like, you know, now I do my proposals like in 24 hours, and you know, I just get it out the door. And and she was like, oh my gosh, I was spending eight days. And I'm like, why? Like, why are you why are you doing that to yourself firstly? You know, and so just questioning like what do they actually need to make an informed choice? And so there's a lot uh questioning's questioning's very powerful, questioning defaults, um, yeah, those are probably the main things you've pulled out there.

Viren 24:24

I think it's it's an that's an interesting call out as well, because I think going back to that theme of resourcefulness. I think the obvious the finite thing, especially if you're like an independent operator, is just the the time you've got. So we've got to be smart about how we spend that time and questioning is it eight days writing a proposal, is that getting me the result that I want or not? Or are there other ways I can look at it?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Viren 24:50

So I'd love to do a bit of a rapid fire around with you. So something new for season two, and I think you know, get us think a little bit of a a different way around this value of resourcefulness. So I've got four rapid fire questions for you, and I want you to answer what or who embodies this value for you. So the first one is who's a famous person that you think is the embodiment of resourcefulness?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Well, I think the most obvious one is MacGyver.

unknown 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

It's like it didn't take me too long to think of that answer. I wouldn't even say, like, I mean, we're going real extreme. Like, I bear grills, you know, like that type of character. It's not really like, but that type of character is like just you don't have any resources here, but like you can still be resourceful.

Viren 25:38

Uh I've just now I'm like, anytime I'm stuck, I'm gonna be like, how can I bear grills my business? Like, totally different. I'm in my cushy office and I'm like, how can I bear grills this now?

SPEAKER_01 25:47

How can I bear grills this? That's such a great question. That is a that is a great question. I love it.

Viren 25:52

Yeah, so good. Um, what's a movie or TV show that embodies resourcefulness?

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Um, I think uh home alone. Home alone isn't really these are great questions. The other two aren't as good. But I can't wait for sure.

Viren 26:18

No, it's like that's that's great. I'm never anytime I get stuck now, I'm gonna have these great visuals in my head online.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah, good. I'm glad.

Viren 26:28

Um what's a book or framework? And this is where I mean I think you can obviously talk about your own book here, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

No, no, no. I don't think my own book really covered. I mean, my own book's about sort of personal agency, which is linked to being resourceful, right? Because like taking like matters into your own hands. But I think um I I was thinking of the framework. You know what improv, like the yes and I think that's what I think that's what it is. It's like whatever is thrown at you, like, yes and we're gonna make something of this, no matter what is thrown my way.

Viren 26:53

I I love it. Um I did long form improv uh for about a year and a half. Um and it was such a good It was it was so it actually changed my it gives you a different perspective and I think yeah, the yes and one is such a good approach to collaborating or thinking, evolving your ideas and and and uh approach. I love it. And I know you're big into music, so what's a song?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I really struggled, like there's so many songs. It was really I mean, I would love to like I don't know if you have got one, but I thought uh I had to uh Britney Spears, she has a song called Work Bitch. Yeah and she's like hold your I think I got the lyrics here. I mean, yes, you better work. Sorry about the language, but um hold your head high, hold your head high, fingers to the sky. They're gonna try and try ya, but they can't deny you. Keep it building higher and higher.

Viren 27:46

I love it, I love it. Channel a bit of if we wanna channel a bit of uh resourcefulness, we know the song to put on now.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, fit of Brittany.

Viren 27:54

Now, obviously, the word resourcefulness comes up and probably has some connotations. I think you mentioned earlier some negative connotations associated with some aspects of resourcefulness. Can you talk to me a little bit about yo, what are some of the misconceptions around this value that you're like, oh, it'd be good to correct this.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Well, I think one I struggle with personally is in separating this out is being resourceful and then independence.

Viren 28:18

I think Interesting, yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, yeah. Like, because I I think sometimes I over-index on the independence part. Resourcefulness doesn't mean you do it on your own. Like you need support, you need relationships, you need connections, like you to be resourceful, but you have to have that. Um, and I think sometimes I try and like I find it hard to ask for help or bring, but you know, I feel like I'm being a burden. Um so I I think they're kind of um like independence is almost like the shadow. Like it's great to be independent, but sometimes I can over-index on that.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Whereas I realize that, you know, people uh you need to, you know, I I love helping people, right? People ask and obviously I want yeah. So that's the misconception. I for me that is the toughest.

Viren 29:01

I think that's such an interesting distinction between the two because I think yes, you could just say resourcefulness is just like get everything done by yourself, but actually I imagine, and even some of the examples you've shared, it's like the first time facilitate a podcast, you're resourceful in getting it up and running, but it was getting help from others, you're getting kind of bringing other people in and tapping into your networks and the people you know. That's also resourceful, and like it's not resourceful to struggle through something that someone else can help you with.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

No, that's it. Yeah, and I didn't want to be like some, you know, that let me Google that for you. Like I I think sometimes the reason people were asking me questions like that wasn't actually because they wanted to ask me a question, they just wanted to connect maybe over something. Like it was a way, and so I am a bit more forgiving now. I'm like, is this like, or maybe it is I just want to ask the question and yeah, but yeah, I I so I think like you said, that they kind of they're interesting both together when you when you think about them.

Viren 29:58

Yeah, that that that is it's a really interesting. Um I my first guest on the podcast was my wife, and she has independence as one of her values and also values community as well. So we had an interesting chat about the interplay between those two things, which I think is similar to what you're what you've landed on as well. They are separate. But sometimes you've got to be be careful, like um because you over-index on one and then it impacts something else.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Big time.

Viren 30:23

Um now a new new question I've kind of introduced for this season as well is around the role of AI and technology and whether it's an enabler or blocker for this value. And I guess you've touched on it a couple of times. Um I can hyp hypothesize what your answer is going to be, but I'll let you answer.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

No surprises.

Viren 30:43

No surprise.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

It's definitely an enabler. Like the I'm fascinated. Something I often talk about is turning nothing into something. And what I mean by that is like nothing is like this idea that's intangible, and within three seconds, through a prompt, you can make it something.

unknown 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

And so I'm fascinated by that all the way. And I've tried to break out of the old habit of kind of prompting what it needs to do, like the task, versus hey, I want you to create this result. Like, how should we do that?

Viren 31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Um, yeah, so I think it's like the coolest thing. I'm having a lot of fun playing with it.

Viren 31:17

No, and you have I've seen your like lots of your experiments and even like even Concon itself, you know, it was amazing how resourceful you were just with the initial process of selling it and getting the idea out there. And then obviously how you execute on it with the real people, but also using AI as well. So I think uh Yeah. Yeah, seeing in action. You're very fast, early adopter trying trying it out and seeing what the potential is. So do you see any like obviously lots of positives from a resourcefulness perspective? Any any consequences you've seen towards leaning on it more? Um either positive or or negative?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Oh, that's interesting. Any consequences of leaning on resourceful? I uh yeah, it probably goes back to that, you know, just thinking that it's all on me to figure it out. Whereas like sometimes, and and being Michael Bungay Stainer talks about like there's the advice trap, um, these these advice monsters, and one is like control it. And I think sometimes I have a tendency, like in any situation, like if it's even if it's like a an airplane that's late, or I feel like what can I do to make this better or like control the situation? Like, how do I? I'm always trying to sort of fix things, and it's like that.

Viren 32:25

Especially when something's late, it's gonna impact punctuality and your resource, it's the double whammy.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

KPIs are just yeah. So there's that sometimes when you're resourceful, there's that tendency to want to solve it. And then also if you're associated with that uh in any situation, people like look to you to solve it when you're like, I don't know. Uh yeah, maybe I can figure it out, or like I'm not in the mood to figure this out. You know, like so kind of as a brand, it can be you're the person that has to sort it all out. Like I'm the middle child of my family and I'm organizing everything, like you know, family gathering, like all that birthdays.

Viren 32:57

Because you're so resourceful there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, yeah. Which I don't mind, but like it can, that's you know, you want to share the love sometimes.

unknown 33:05

Yeah.

Viren 33:07

Amazing. And I know we we've we've talked a bit about it, and I think I'd love for you to share a little bit more about your upcoming book because as you mentioned, it's maybe more about personal agency than it is resourcefulness, but I'm sure there's uh there's some stuff in there. But uh yeah, tell us more about this the book. Yeah, what you're hoping. Yes, love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Thanks, Faron. It's called uh subtitle, get the projects, promotions, and perks you deserve. Yes, it was really written for that 2016 version of Leanne that worked in this big global company, um, had like was overlooked, wasn't doing anything, sitting at my screen, not really feeling like I was contributing, and then basically just sort of shares over 18 months what I did and what you can do to become work famous. And basically, it just starts off with like it's okay to want to be famous. I mean, you get some really great things out of being famous. Like you travel, you get cool invites, you hang out with amazing people. Like, I think fame has a bad rap. And I get it. Work famous is a bit different because you're famous within your industry or organization. And so yeah, it's very practical. Like, you know, even down to things like if you're asked to be on a panel, you know, how do you what do you say as a panelist? Like, how do you think about that? Um, how do you reach out to people? Yeah, it's also really practical. Uh, it's a toolbook that I wish I had in 2016 when I was trying to figure it out. But that's a good thing about writing a book is like you if you you live the experience, then you can go through it, share it 10 years later. So, yeah, that's what the book is about.

Viren 34:31

Oh, amazing. I was sure it's packed full of amazing stories and examples because you just I think you've just got a a well of them because you're doing it. Like you're doing it, it's not and again, I think this is another thing that impressed me at Concord. You you you practice what you preach. I just I I think it's an important quality. Not everyone has it, especially in the kind of teaching domain, but you actually do it. So I'm I'm I'm I'm no doubt that there's tons of great practical stuff in there.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Well, thank you.

Viren 34:55

And I think that famous thing is you become a bit more you become a magnet for opportunity and new stuff.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

So love it.

Viren 35:02

And I think it would be awesome to round out. We started off talking a little bit about CONCON, but we've also got CONCON coming up again. So yes, 2027.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

2027, we are back. And so, like, yes, and so this time, so 50 people, we're gonna go to 75. 50 seats are already taken for next week.

Viren 35:17

Which is amazing in itself.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Like, it's just yeah, it's pretty amazing. I hear the DJ's coming back.

Viren 35:22

The DJ's back. He can't keep me away.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

So June 34th, I've actually narrowed it down. I was like Sunny Coast or Gold Coast, I'm going Gold Coast again. I've got some really I've been talking to a few venues and going to hopefully make an announcement soon. But yeah, if you're an independent consultant or even run a boutique um agency, service professional, and you want to hang out with amazing people, um, learn some cool things. I don't know, like I don't it's really hard to because I've never had to really pitch it. And then people that are there like know what it's like. It's just great vibes. What would you share about it, Virin? Like it was fun.

Viren 35:55

I think it was super fun. I think it's people that get it because I think sometimes that's hard. As I was saying earlier, you can go to stuff and it's like you talk to people that and slightly bigger, like bigger startups, and it's just the s the same stuff doesn't quite apply to if you're either you're starting out and you're on your own, or you're on your own at that point in the journey you're in, or that's what you want to end up being. I think some people are happy running their own thing. But it's there's a unique there's a unique set of challenges when you're in the smaller end of the spectrum, which I think is great to share. But I think it just uh ends up acting as a great um kick up with the bum, essentially, because lots of people there like you've got super smart driven people, so you're kind of like in that environment, and sometimes it's oh yes, I can be doing more, playing bigger, because you kind of get that impetus when you're around those people. So I think you can want a bit of a kick up the bum in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

That is the best tagline. That and the bear grill line are just my takeaways today. I love that line.

Viren 36:50

Uh it's awesome. Well, uh awesome chatting to you about this value of resourcefulness. I I love it when I walk away and I've got like lots of ideas percolating away. And again, you've given me a kick up the bum now to be a bit more resourceful, some of the things that I'm messing around on. So get going, Vera. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

You're hosting a podcast, super resourceful to host a podcast. It's like maybe like just recognize. I mean, you're you're doing it already. I don't think you need to you are doing a lot.

Viren 37:16

Sometimes you're just like, you need to push more.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, yeah. It's a dangerous trap. Yeah, it's it is a trap. It is a trap. But yeah, thank you. I love the conversation, so fun. Just great laughter and uh energy from you. So thanks for hosting a great chat.

Viren 37:27

Thank you so much. Means a lot coming from the veteran. We'll chat soon.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Sounds good.